Possibly OT, but thinking about magazine springs taking a set

[Gary Paine]

So I know that springs take a set over time, but how much time? I'm sure temperature is also a factor, but doubt that the range of normal ambient temperatures is large enough to have much effect. What got me thinking about this as a possible problem is a magazine in a semi automatic. I know a gun should not be loaded until ready for use, but if it is kept at the ready for defensive purposes, it must be loaded to be of use. But time goes on and months go into years seemingly much faster these days than in the past. One day I will look at the piece and marvel that it has been there for 10 years and wonder where the time went. But in that time will the spring be weakened or bad?
So what do you think? Are semi autos not a good choice for "at the ready" defense, or should I worry about something else?

[Doc Nickel]

Your premise is flawed before you start. If not overstressed, springs do not "take a set".

Shortly before he passed away, Jeff Cooper (if I recall correctly) had an opportunity to examine a Colt 1911, that had been sitting stored- and loaded- since approximately WW2. Knowing of this old wives' tale, Cooper (again, as I recall, it's been years since I read the article) arranged to fire the loaded magazine full of then-sixty-plus-year-old ammo, I believe through a less-collectible, more modern example of the gun.

All eight shots fed and fired perfectly. A later comparison of that magazine spring- that had been continually fully compressed for over sixty years- with an unused spring of a similar GI source and vintage, showed no more length variation than could be attributed to part-to-part differences given the manufacturing capabilities of the day.

Now, that said: Springs can wear out. Continual cycling can eventually fatigue them, and competitive shooters will frequently replace them. Lower quality springs, too, have been known to lose tension, and some magazine manufacturers have noted that, in the modern effort to jam more and more capacity into ever-smaller and lighter guns, in many cases there is not enough spring, and a normal, full load can "overstress" the springs.

Bottom line: if you have a factory, name-brand magazine, from a name-brand manufacturer (Colt, Smith & Wesson, Glock, SIG, Beretta, etc.) you can load it to full capacity, and be virtually guaranteed that even 20 or 30 years from now, you can pick it up and it will fire as new.

Doc.

[CCWKen]

I bought my S&W Shield 9mm last November. It came with 7-round and an 8-round magazine. I purchased two more 8-rounders and I've kept all of the mags loaded. The mag springs were so stiff, I couldn't load the mags by hand. I had to get an UpLula loader. It wasn't until about March of this year that I felt comfortable shooting the pistol. I've been taking Rheumatoid Arthritis meds and it was just starting to work. I popped off thirty some-od rounds and emptied all the mags. I tried to reload the mags by hand but they were still too stiff. After reloading with the loader again, they sat until just last week. Same thing. I still can't load the mags by hand. As it turns out, the Shield mags and recoil springs are known to be stiff. I keep all my mags loaded since I usually carry 7+1 and an 8-round spare. Depending on where I may be going, I sometimes carry two spare 8-rounders.

I have no problem loading .30cal carbine, AR15 or M12AK mags. The Shield springs are just tough as ram's horn. I carried a .25 semi-auto for 20 some years and the mag has always been loaded. It still functions without a miscue and the mag doesn't seem any weaker.

[KJ1I]

We escaped from California in 1994. We did all the packing ourselves. Bunch of stuff went into a box labeled "Spare Shooting Stuff". It contained a bunch of mil surplus (acquired in the early 80's) cleaning supplies, 30 round AR magazines, and just a bunch of other "stuff". Moved to New Hampshire, stayed with relatives for about 3 weeks house hunting, so the truck load went into a storage unit. Found a house (still in it), and moved most of the stuff into the house, leaving a number of boxes of stuff we didn't need right away in storage. Fast forward to last year. SHMBO says "Don't you think its time to get rid of the storage unit?" So all the boxes go into the basement. Finally get around to the "Spare Shooting Stuff" box. In it is a military early Colt AR15 magazine loaded with FMJ. So my son (he's 42) and I head into the back yard (yah, its wonderful), set up a target, and all 20 rounds fire with no malfunctions.

I wouldn't worry about mag springs taking a set. I'd only be concerned about a mag that was loaded and unloaded dozens of times a week.

[Mike Amick]

Finally get around to the "Spare Shooting Stuff" box. In it is a military early Colt AR15 magazine loaded with FMJ. So my son (he's 42) and I head into the back yard (yah, its wonderful), set up a target, and all 20 rounds fire with no malfunctions.

I'm betting that every single person that read this ... did as I did and looked up at his location. Isn't that funny.

[Sun God]

Springs don't take a set, or creep. Compressed to an internal stress within the elastic regime of that metal (which is the operating principle of a spring), the metal remains elastic indefinitely. If the strain on that spring is released completely, it will return to its relaxed state completely.

By contrast, cycling a spring - whether loading or unloading - causes fatigue on that spring, which regardless of the magnitude of stress placed on the spring will wear it out. Every load cycle slowly causes crystalline discontinuities to accumulate in the lattice, which over time appreciably reduces the yield strength of the material, which is the primary mechanism for a spring to take a set.

I always have a chuckle at those at the clay target club, who chide me with the reminder 'you'll wear out your hammer springs' when they see I don't decock my O/U before storage, while they slowly wear out their springs and firing pins with needless additional cycles (and the added expense of snap caps).

[Gary Paine]

Thanks all for the responses. Some good supporting evidence as well, and I can rest easily now.

[oldwing]

I can't see any reason why they would take a set, but when I was in both boot camp and ITR, the DIs kept hammering home that a 1911 should be loaded with only 5 rounds in the mag. But then that was 48 years ago.

[ncjeeper]

We escaped from California in 1994.

Good for you.

[BCRider]

Some cheaply made springs will "take a set". But that's only because they are cheaply made and shortcuts were done during the making of them. As mentioned frequently a good spring should not collapse from being compressed up to it's maximum intended compression.

I suspect it's the cheaply made craptastic spring products that gave rise to the idea that springs left compressed over time will "take a set".

[Doc Nickel]

I can't see any reason why they would take a set, but when I was in both boot camp and ITR, the DIs kept hammering home that a 1911 should be loaded with only 5 rounds in the mag. But then that was 48 years ago.

-I suspect that was a lot closer to the same reason Andy only gave Barney one bullet, than having anything to do with the springs.

Doc.

[flylo]

I left some loaded for years with no problem.

[oldwing]

-I suspect that was a lot closer to the same reason Andy only gave Barney one bullet, than having anything to do with the springs.

Doc.

Well, the DIs weren't trying to encourage us to think for ourselves. They were more interested in teaching us what to think.

[ikdor]

So, does this mean that you don't need to turn your torque wrench to a low value after use? Same fairy tale.

[Catshooter]

It's a well known and applied fact to many people that read the Glocktalk forum that leaving a brand new Glock mag loaded for a few months will make it easier to load. I've done it myself. So, at least some springs are affected a bit by leaving them compressed for a time. It can make the difference for some between being able to load the mag by hand or having to use a loader. The mags still function perfectly.


Cat