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  • Paul Alciatore
    replied
    I used to drink from the hose. Odd taste, but when you are hot and thirsty...

    Anyway, one day I was watering the lawn/flowers and I noticed that some pieces of a lizard started to come out of the nozzle that I was using. I haven't used a hose for drinking since.



    Originally posted by wombat2go View Post
    City of Flint.
    The street here ...<snip>...

    The external hose bibs have to comply because there is a remote chance a child will drink from a hose.
    This house, built 1926, has been inspected using X Ray Fluoroscopy, and has lead under most painted surfaces.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ridgerunner
    replied
    You're probably talking "Orangeburg pipe". Pretty common around here for sewer laterals and downspout lines for old timers.

    Leave a comment:


  • reggie_obe
    replied
    Originally posted by Cobra62 View Post
    Mine wasn't. Had to get it changed in 2001. I couldn't believe they used tar impregnated cardboard for sewer lines!

    It did last from 1959 to 2001 so I guess it wasn't that bad.
    Are you reffering to Orangeberg pipe?
    http://www.sewerhistory.org/articles...orangeburg.htm

    Leave a comment:


  • J Tiers
    replied
    Sheesh.

    Clay tile here, actually iron pipe under the house, and clay tile outside. Never heard of tarred cardboard. Our iron and clay sewer pipes are now lined with a fiberglass material all the way out to the yard trap, so it is not a concern. Digging to replace would have meant taking down two trees, and digging down 10 feet or more. I bet the tarred cardboard let the tree roots right in. Can't see roto-rooter being able to do much with it, and I suspect it could not be effectively lined.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cobra62
    replied
    Originally posted by dave_r View Post
    Like everything, there's always tradeoffs.

    I'm just glad my house was built just a few years after they stopped using cardboard for the sewer connection from houses to the main line.
    Mine wasn't. Had to get it changed in 2001. I couldn't believe they used tar impregnated cardboard for sewer lines!

    It did last from 1959 to 2001 so I guess it wasn't that bad.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mister ED
    replied
    Originally posted by garagemark View Post
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/poisoned-water.html

    This is by far the most explanatory piece I've seen on the issue to date(I'm a NOVA fan anyway). It clearly explains what went wrong in Flint, and also has some connotation of why lead pipes, per se, are not all that dangerous if properly maintained.
    That was a very good piece, I had not seen it in the past. I do wish they had touched on the fact that Flint had been using the river 2x per month for 5 decades. So, they had been breaking the federal lead & copper rule since its inception in '91.

    Leave a comment:


  • garagemark
    replied
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/poisoned-water.html

    This is by far the most explanatory piece I've seen on the issue to date(I'm a NOVA fan anyway). It clearly explains what went wrong in Flint, and also has some connotation of why lead pipes, per se, are not all that dangerous if properly maintained.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mister ED
    replied
    Originally posted by ironmonger View Post
    Re inept water utilities:

    The cryptosporidium outbreak in Milwaukee in 1993 was ultimately caused by a change in the filtration chemistry.
    Oh don't remind me of that one!!! I lived on that side of the lake at the time. We were in South Milwaukee (different water system) ... but some of us did end up sick. We figure it was from eating out, which we were doing a lot of since my in-laws were over visiting. My mother-in-law was pretty bad off.

    Leave a comment:


  • dave_r
    replied
    Originally posted by MattiJ View Post
    Many references in this thread to new PVC pipes. I thought that pvc was less desirable option but maybe not so bad then?
    AFAIK pretty much all the piping around here is Polyethylene since sixties or something.
    And Plumbing in new houses is almost entirely xlpe pipes instead of copper. (Not that those are entirely trouble free either, there has been also some cases that chemichals are leaching off the xlpe pipe material)
    Like everything, there's always tradeoffs.

    I'm just glad my house was built just a few years after they stopped using cardboard for the sewer connection from houses to the main line.

    Leave a comment:


  • MattiJ
    replied
    Many references in this thread to new PVC pipes. I thought that pvc was less desirable option but maybe not so bad then?
    AFAIK pretty much all the piping around here is Polyethylene since sixties or something.
    And Plumbing in new houses is almost entirely xlpe pipes instead of copper. (Not that those are entirely trouble free either, there has been also some cases that chemichals are leaching off the xlpe pipe material)

    Leave a comment:


  • ironmonger
    replied
    Originally posted by Mister ED View Post
    Not really. Although it was known that lead service existed, it also exists in any older city ... including Lansing, GR and K-zoo.
    Flint had been buying treated water from Detroit since the late '60s, or early '70's. They had also been running their own water treatment plant 2x per month to keep it operational, as a backup. Guess where they were getting that water? The Flint River.
    The water treatment facility in Flint did not have (and had not been using) an appropriate water treatment program. They were not adequately adjusting the pH of the outgoing water, and I also think I recall were not using some type of anti-corrosion additive. So they had been screwing up 2x per month for 50 years ... which apparently was not enough to unleash the chain reaction. But start treating 100% of the water incorrectly, the low pH eats at the built up coating in the pipes and "the genie is out of the bottle" ... and they are in the predicament that we have today.

    The root cause here is really the ineptness of the mgmt. folks running the water treatment plant. The delays, and somewhat of a cover up ... that's another issue.
    Re inept water utilities:

    The cryptosporidium outbreak in Milwaukee in 1993 was ultimately caused by a change in the filtration chemistry. They changed the floculant in an effort to reduce the water main corrosion that the old floculant caused. I don't know at what rate the corrosion was occurring, but it represented a portion of the repair expenses for the utility, I believe it was primarily in the older cast iron mains rather than the newer ductile iron piping. Milwaukee was too hidebound to use PVC water mains, which most of the neighboring communities used. very old school.

    The company that I worked for at the time had the contract to replace and rebuilt the filtration plants which also included a new ozone system. It was a great job, and it lasted for about 5 years... that’s pretty long in construction time. The part you never heard about was the return to the old floculant... Stuff that never makes the newspaper is common knowledge amongst the construction crews. We are always trying to stay on good terms with the maintenance folks, so coffee and doughnut chats turn up some interesting facts.

    Let's add one more thing to worry about. One of the solutions to water impurities is a reverse osmosis filter system. They do exactly what they advertise... but in doing so they create another problem. The water that they produce is so pure that it begins dissolving whatever you put it in... that's what PURE water does. If the system that you use includes a re-mineralizer your are in luck. This reintroduces known good minerals to the water. It taste's better. If you have ever tasted distilled water, after it's cooled down of course, it tastes 'off'. No minerals.
    The RO water will dissolve more minerals, but in the case of human consumption they come from your body. How serious this is depends on how much water you drink.

    There are plenty of minerals in beer. :>)

    Leave a comment:


  • flylo
    replied
    Thanks Mister ED, that's pretty much the story I was told but who decided to start using water from the Flint river & drop buying it from Detroit as the had for years? It will come out of my pocket somehow as usual.

    Leave a comment:


  • grim_d
    replied
    Originally posted by MattiJ View Post
    Have to wonder how there is still lead piping in use anywhere in sort of civilised world.
    AFAIK the risks have been known for centuries, around here it has been banned and replaced over 100 years ago.
    Because money.

    As in, the councils/states won't pay the money.

    Leave a comment:


  • MattiJ
    replied
    Have to wonder how there is still lead piping in use anywhere in sort of civilised world.
    AFAIK the risks have been known for centuries, around here it has been banned and replaced over 100 years ago.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mister ED
    replied
    Originally posted by flylo View Post
    Am I right that the problem was known for years by everyone including the Fed EPA thus Flint bought water from Detroit because Flints water destroyed the coating that had accumulated inside the pipes & blocked the lead leeching until Flint was assigned a state manager who changed the process & started using the Flint River? I have a friend who was in charge of all Detroit water in & outgoing that retired before the switch occurred.
    Not really. Although it was known that lead service existed, it also exists in any older city ... including Lansing, GR and K-zoo.
    Flint had been buying treated water from Detroit since the late '60s, or early '70's. They had also been running their own water treatment plant 2x per month to keep it operational, as a backup. Guess where they were getting that water? The Flint River.
    The water treatment facility in Flint did not have (and had not been using) an appropriate water treatment program. They were not adequately adjusting the pH of the outgoing water, and I also think I recall were not using some type of anti-corrosion additive. So they had been screwing up 2x per month for 50 years ... which apparently was not enough to unleash the chain reaction. But start treating 100% of the water incorrectly, the low pH eats at the built up coating in the pipes and "the genie is out of the bottle" ... and they are in the predicament that we have today.

    The root cause here is really the ineptness of the mgmt. folks running the water treatment plant. The delays, and somewhat of a cover up ... that's another issue.

    Leave a comment:

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