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ALLEN NUTS ever used or tried them?

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  • ALLEN NUTS ever used or tried them?

    Long ago I was designing pieces to fit on motorcycles.
    I was working on a shock cover and did not like the gaping hole around the nut...clearance for the nut, plus the socket to re and re it.
    Then I discovered Allen nuts. For a 3/8 stud, I now only needed a hole about .610 for the fastener, as opposed to maybe .75.
    Much nicer, cleaner look.. really solved the problem.
    They really are a cool item that has some very unique features.
    They have a 12 pt internal hex, are round, bit longer than a socket head, and half of the body has internal threads. They also have a short knurl on top, to ease assembly, or allow it to be press fit into a hole.
    Anyone else have any experience with these.?

    Sorry no pic.
    Last edited by 754; 07-24-2017, 05:16 PM.

  • #2
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_wrenching_nut

    they look good.

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    • #3
      Interesting. I have not heard of these before. A quick look on Mcmaster-Carr and I see for alloy steel in 1/4"-20 they are $1.30 apiece. Same size in stainless is almost $3 apiece. But, if you have a specific need they could be the mutt's nuts.

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      • #4
        They do look good, they could be the ideal solution to a designer's space problem, and like other socketed fasteners, they'll often be full of crud and/or rust that has to be dug out before you undo them.

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        • #5
          Iv seen them here and there on a select few automotive applications, for some reason exhaust headers stick out in my mind but I don't know for what, might have actually been motorcycles

          they are not as strong as far as tightening and loosening goes - 12 point always sucks and with these it's small 12 point in comparison to the external hex - think they would be even more of a nightmare in the "corrosive states" but for some rare occasions I can see them being the catz azz.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by cameron View Post
            They do look good, they could be the ideal solution to a designer's space problem, and like other socketed fasteners, they'll often be full of crud and/or rust that has to be dug out before you undo them.
            Allen head cap covers take care of that problem nicely.

            https://www.amazon.com/Socket-Screw-.../dp/B06VSS4SNR

            -js
            There are no stupid questions. But there are lots of stupid answers. This is the internet.

            Location: SF Bay Area

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            • #7
              Yes, I would have rather had 6 point.
              I had an excellent supplier for chromed fasteners for bike stuff, I was buying these in chrome, man they did look good.
              Cost has always been high. I think the chrome 3/8 NF were like 4 or 5 bucks in the 90,s. Still got a few around.

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              • #8
                They use them on bicycle brakes, I think the purpose is to reduce the different tools needed to adjust, so 5mm allen key fits them and most other bike screws.
                "...do you not think you have enough machines?"

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                • #9
                  I had some of those stupid things on my car, I swear they were made of cheese, they rounded out and required banging in a slightly bigger torx bit to shift, you can't drill them without mangling the threaded rod under them, I hope I don't see any more!, I replaced them with Allen set screws, hope you have better luck than I did with them, I tend to be unlucky with weird fasteners
                  Mark

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                  • #10
                    Never seen one of those before, but it strikes me as being a type of sex screw.
                    Location: Long Island, N.Y.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by boslab View Post
                      I had some of those stupid things on my car, I swear they were made of cheese, they rounded out and required banging in a slightly bigger torx bit to shift, you can't drill them without mangling the threaded rod under them, I hope I don't see any more!, I replaced them with Allen set screws, hope you have better luck than I did with them, I tend to be unlucky with weird fasteners
                      Mark
                      This has been what I've run into with any 'socket head' fastener, they always seem too soft and strip out too easily.
                      A set of headers I installed came with Allen nuts, I have to admit they did make it very easy to install, but a couple years later I spent four hours trying to remove two of them on one side, ended up pulling engine so I could actually get to them.

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                      • #12
                        The Allen nuts from US makers are fairly hard like the rest of their socket head stuff. They can be found in 6 pt. I think they are maybe grade 8. Of course they may be crappy knockoffs.
                        I think the metric bicycle ones mentioned May be pretty soft, think They are bright plated and have a bit of a tapered shape.

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                        • #13
                          And they add another $0.10 to an already high price for the Allen nut.

                          1/4-20 Allen Nut:
                          Alloy Steel: $1.33 each + $0.10 = $1.43 each


                          1/4-20 Hex Nuts:
                          Grade 8: $0.0322 each
                          18-8 Stainless: $0.0385 each
                          Mil Spec, Low Strength: $0.2242 each
                          Brass: $0.1478 each
                          Grade 2, Plated: $0.0268 each

                          All the above prices are from McMaster-Carr.

                          I purchase Grade 2 or 3 nuts by the pound from Tractor Supply and get about 150 of them in one pound. That pound costs about $1.79 IIRC. That's $0.01193 each or less than 1% of the price of an Allen Nut.

                          In addition to the price, there is one other, fairly obvious drawback to using these nuts. The screw must be within one or two threads of the exact length needed. If it is too short, then the amount of torque will be severely limited. And if it is too long, then the nut will not tighten properly. Generally speaking, bolts come in inch, half inch, quarter inch, sometimes eighth or even sixteenth of an inch increments. The finer increments are only for very short ones. So, for many applications, you are going to have to take extra time to cut each screw to the exact length needed.

                          It is going to take a lot of need for space or for pretty to get me to use those Allen Nuts. I see them as a specialty item only. But they are neat.



                          Originally posted by Jim Stewart View Post
                          Allen head cap covers take care of that problem nicely.

                          https://www.amazon.com/Socket-Screw-.../dp/B06VSS4SNR

                          -js
                          Paul A.
                          SE Texas

                          And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
                          You will find that it has discrete steps.

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                          • #14
                            For attaching two flat surfaces together where space for the fastener might be an issue, like the exhaust header example given earlier, I like the left hand/right hand fasteners. I don't know what they're called, but it's a short fastener with male LH threads on half it's length and male RH threads on the other half. There is a female Allen hex in the top. Hole in the topmost flange only needs to be large enough to pass the hex wrench. When the fastener is turned clockwise, it draws the two flanges together.

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                            • #15
                              You guys would debate the usefulness of a ham sandwich.

                              -D
                              DZER

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