Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Multi-viscosity motor oil question.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • boslab
    replied
    20-50 comes to mind, seemed a popular choice with tractors, probably why we had a 45 gallon drum of the stuff in the barn, thin it wasent, it was a shell drum. It was an old tractor mind
    Mark

    Leave a comment:


  • Willy
    replied
    Joe's right, if the engine has seen any amount of reasonable servicing over the last couple of decades with quality oil, sludge build up should not be a problem.

    Nothing wrong with using a good quality name brand multi viscosity engine oil in this application. My personal choice would be Chevron's Delo 400 LE. It not only meets CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, API diesel engine specs in addition to also meeting API gasoline engine spec SM. In addition it also has one of the highest zinc and phosphorus contents in an oil that still meets SM specs. Although biased toward diesel engine applications it is used extensively in mixed fleet applications that use both gasoline and diesel engines, both turbocharged and naturally aspirated.
    It also has been one of only a few oils that has endured Caterpillar's 3612 series engine, rigorous 7,000 HR test with flying colors. It's always been my favorite for a number of reasons and it's readily available.
    Not that it's the only choice, this isn't a high stress application, it can be met by any number of quality multi-viscosity engine oils.

    The ability of multi-grade oils to stay in grade is more a function of the type and quality of it's polymers used and their ability to remain intact after undergoing shear stress rather than heat exposure. Shear stress literally chops the polymer chains into little pieces thus greatly diminishing it's multi-grade viscosity coverage.

    Heat will oxidize an oil increasing it's viscosity. The heat and oxidation will also expose the oil to releasing a percentage of it's volume due to the oil's volatility. It's ability to resist that characteristic helps make it more thermally stable.
    Both of these qualities are highly dependent on the amount and quality of the additive package that can make up 15-25% of an oil's volume.

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeLee
    replied
    Originally posted by engineerd3d View Post
    On slugged up engines I generally pour 1 quart of cheap ATF in there and run the engine lightly for 10-15 minutes, then I use some of my older used up oil and drain the sludge atf combo and pour in used oil from my car, run another 5-10 minutes and then swap filter and oil. This should remove most of the sludge and keep it liquid enough to not clog up the pathways with a flush of used motor oil to carry out the remaining crap. New oil completes the treatment and a nice clean crank case is the result. Just don't over stress the engine. The main problem with such flushes is trying to keep enough viscosity in the oil to not clog up passage ways while still providing lubrication.

    ATF has a very very aggressive detergent pack in it that basically eats away sludge and turns it into a yougurt consistency.
    If you run detergent oil and change it once in a while you shouldn't have much of a sludge problem.


    JL............................

    Leave a comment:


  • Hal
    replied
    You might ask this question over on the yestrdaytractor forum ams see what they say,

    Hal

    Leave a comment:


  • engineerd3d
    replied
    On slugged up engines I generally pour 1 quart of cheap ATF in there and run the engine lightly for 10-15 minutes, then I use some of my older used up oil and drain the sludge atf combo and pour in used oil from my car, run another 5-10 minutes and then swap filter and oil. This should remove most of the sludge and keep it liquid enough to not clog up the pathways with a flush of used motor oil to carry out the remaining crap. New oil completes the treatment and a nice clean crank case is the result. Just don't over stress the engine. The main problem with such flushes is trying to keep enough viscosity in the oil to not clog up passage ways while still providing lubrication.

    ATF has a very very aggressive detergent pack in it that basically eats away sludge and turns it into a yougurt consistency.

    Leave a comment:


  • J Tiers
    replied
    Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
    yeah would not attempt that even at idle its not good on the connecting rod bearings, the forces might not be all that extreme but you have to consider that these engines had a hard enough time creating good oil pressure at idle to begin with - now throw in something with the viscosity of water and imagine how much is bleeding past the old worn out pump and all the bearings, it's the bearings last in line that might not even be getting anything
    If you just "cut" the oil with 'some' kero, or similar, that may do the same thing as far as cleaning, but not be so draكtic as running kero straight. Kerosene has nearly no lube capability.

    Leave a comment:


  • A.K. Boomer
    replied
    Originally posted by firbikrhd1 View Post
    My guess, and this is only a guess, is that your tractor, depending upon it's age, was built before multi grade oils were available, perfected or common. You are probably OK with using a modern multigrade as far as viscosity goes, however there may be other concerns. You didn't mention whether it is gasoline or diesel, however, older gasoline engines were designed for oils with higher zinc and phosphorus content which protected bearing surfaces under high pressure loads, like camshaft lobes. Those substances have been largely eliminated from modern oils because they damage catalytic converters. People with classic cars with flat tappet cams (including hydraulic lifters) have had cams wiped out by using new oil formulations. Those that still run flat tappet cams are using special oils with additional zinc and phosphorus, the rest have switched to roller camshafts so they can use commonly available oils.

    These articles may be of some use:
    http://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/clas...-classic-cars/

    http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2017...our-options-2/


    Perhaps the valve spring pressure in your tractor isn't high enough to cause a problem, but it would be worth investigating before destroying a cam and having all those metal particles run through the entire engine.

    In the end you are probably best to contact a reputable oil manufacturer with questions about your specific needs. Most times their tech people are pretty good and willing to help.

    Purely for reference and as an example, old Briggs and Stratton "L" head engines specified straight 30 weight oil for temperature ranges while later engines of the same type could use multi viscosity oils or straight weight oils. Living in S. FL where it is hot year round I chose straight weight for my lawn equipment equipped with that type engine.

    It's a good point but I think they got that fairly ironed out now - their is a substitute additive they are using that's compatible with cats, Mobile one had some serious problems for awhile or I should say created some serious problems
    with cam lobes and lifters

    the engines most effected were the horizontally opposed twins fours and sixes - if they were pushrod engines they use the same camshaft lobes to do "double duty" anotherwords the same lobe that actuates #1 on an opposed twin also takes care of #2

    Leave a comment:


  • A.K. Boomer
    replied
    yeah would not attempt that even at idle its not good on the connecting rod bearings, the forces might not be all that extreme but you have to consider that these engines had a hard enough time creating good oil pressure at idle to begin with - now throw in something with the viscosity of water and imagine how much is bleeding past the old worn out pump and all the bearings, it's the bearings last in line that might not even be getting anything

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeLee
    replied
    Originally posted by strokersix View Post
    Might consider multiple oil changes instead of kerosene.

    Kerosene mixed with sludge is probably not a good lubricant...
    Sounds like a good way to wear the motor out real fast.


    JL............

    Leave a comment:


  • firbikrhd1
    replied
    My guess, and this is only a guess, is that your tractor, depending upon it's age, was built before multi grade oils were available, perfected or common. You are probably OK with using a modern multigrade as far as viscosity goes, however there may be other concerns. You didn't mention whether it is gasoline or diesel, however, older gasoline engines were designed for oils with higher zinc and phosphorus content which protected bearing surfaces under high pressure loads, like camshaft lobes. Those substances have been largely eliminated from modern oils because they damage catalytic converters. People with classic cars with flat tappet cams (including hydraulic lifters) have had cams wiped out by using new oil formulations. Those that still run flat tappet cams are using special oils with additional zinc and phosphorus, the rest have switched to roller camshafts so they can use commonly available oils.

    These articles may be of some use:
    http://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/clas...-classic-cars/

    http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2017...our-options-2/


    Perhaps the valve spring pressure in your tractor isn't high enough to cause a problem, but it would be worth investigating before destroying a cam and having all those metal particles run through the entire engine.

    In the end you are probably best to contact a reputable oil manufacturer with questions about your specific needs. Most times their tech people are pretty good and willing to help.

    Purely for reference and as an example, old Briggs and Stratton "L" head engines specified straight 30 weight oil for temperature ranges while later engines of the same type could use multi viscosity oils or straight weight oils. Living in S. FL where it is hot year round I chose straight weight for my lawn equipment equipped with that type engine.

    Leave a comment:


  • pgmrdan
    Guest replied
    Okay. Probably much safer.

    Leave a comment:


  • strokersix
    replied
    Might consider multiple oil changes instead of kerosene.

    Kerosene mixed with sludge is probably not a good lubricant...

    Leave a comment:


  • pgmrdan
    Guest replied
    The tractor is from the 1940's. Massey Harris Pony. Very small engine.

    As far as loosening up sludge someone I knew years ago would use kerosene instead of oil in an engine to free up sludge. Run the engine for a few minutes with a new filter and shut it off. Repeat and rinse. Then change out the filter and kerosene for a new filter and correct oil.

    Sounds like a good idea but I never tried it. Any harm in it?

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeLee
    replied
    My 1964 Simplicity tractors have a sticker on the Briggs motor that recommends a specific oil weight for a given temp. range. Don't remember exactly what it is with out looking, but like AK says it may be prior to the multi viscosity era. I've used 10W 40 in both of them for years with no problems. The heavier weight was recommended for summer use and lighter weight oil for winter. I do remember using straight 40W one summer and when winter came the motor was hard cranking in cold weather.

    JL...............

    Leave a comment:


  • A.K. Boomer
    replied
    SS that's wise advise indeed - that's going back even further than the multi-grade clause but if it is indeed N/D then by all means stick with it unless of course you plan on pulling the pan and cleaning everything out...

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X