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  • Tooling an iso 40 milling machine.

    What is the best way to tool an iso 40 machine. I have a rose cutter and jacobs chuck but the chuck is attached to a morse three stub and I lose alot of travel. I also have an er set from 1mm to 10mm. Its a pain the moment I go to 13mm. What would cover the range of drills and mills with the least aggravation factor.I also have clarkson collet that can do up to 30mm plus but I dont bother using it.

    Is there something that would cover the whole range from 1mm to a 20mm end mill and not be to bulky and still have good grip abilities.
    I want to buy something off banggood but need to make the right choice.

  • #2
    ER32 will take you to 20mm. You can get some ER40s later if you need some larger sizes.

    ER collets do grip well if you tighten them properly. I hear people say their ER collets slipped, but I suspect that they are often not done up tight enough. You will never tighten them enough in the mill spindle. Make a holder and put some serious effort into it. I had no idea how tight they had to be until I bought an ER torque wrench. It's about five times the effort I thought they needed.

    According to http://www.techniksusa.com/metal/torque_chart.htm ER32 should be tightened to 100 ft/lbs. Most ER32 wrenches won't be a foot long.
    Last edited by pinstripe; 08-01-2017, 05:34 AM.

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    • #3
      I use sk40 collets for most things on my mill. I have special sk40 holders for endmills and drill chucks but I rarely use them. With the collets I don't lose any headroom.
      How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

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      • #4
        Plunger,

        My preferences are probably out of date, but the 40 taper turret mill I used had a (Jacobs Super Ball Bearing 16mm) drill chuck on a 40 taper arbor and a Clarkson or Larcher Autolock chuck with a 40 taper shank. (And each had a different draw bar thread, don't make that mistake ).

        The Autolock chuck you mention sounds like it is the large model, you want the small model which takes 6, 10, 12 & 16mm collets. The 6mm shanks go down to 1.5mm and the 16mm shanks go up to a 20mm cutter. And the best thing is they cannot slip. You need to use threaded shank cutters, but that is not a problem in this country anyway.

        But I know everyone except me seems to like ER type nowadays. The Autolock stuff has always been expensive and Clarkson etc. are long gone AFAIK.

        BTW, that mill had a large Autolock chuck too, it is handy for holding a home-made arbor to take slitting saws.
        Last edited by Peter S; 08-01-2017, 08:42 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Peter S View Post
          Plunger,

          My preferences are probably out of date, but the 40 taper turret mill I used had a (Jacobs Super Ball Bearing 16mm) drill chuck on a 40 taper arbor and a Clarkson or Larcher Autolock chuck with a 40 taper shank. (And each had a different draw bar thread, don't make that mistake ).

          The Autolock chuck you mention sounds like it is the large model, you want the small model which takes 6, 10, 12 & 16mm collets. The 6mm shanks go down to 1.5mm and the 16mm shanks go up to a 20mm cutter. And the best thing is they cannot slip. You need to use threaded shank cutters, but that is not a problem in this country anyway.

          But I know everyone except me seems to like ER type nowadays. The Autolock stuff has always been expensive and Clarkson etc. are long gone AFAIK.

          BTW, that mill had a large Autolock chuck too, it is handy for holding a home-made arbor to take slitting saws.
          I have both the big and small autolock system The problem is the thread. I am looking for something that doesnt take up headroom and can take threaded and non threaded endmills and drills without me having to chop and change all the time. Can an er 32 go down to small sizes like 3mm and doesnt the nut get to big to get close to work if you are using a 3mm slot drill. I guess you cant get everything to work.It might be better if I did my jacobs drill on a stub and not a 3 morse taper That would save me some space.

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          • #6
            Sounds like you could do with a couple of er11 holders with 12mm shanks, one cut short so it has minimum projection. An iso40 sidelock of 12mm would give the best headroom.
            I would have thought that a mill using iso40 would have lots of headroom, after all, it's the commonest industrial fitting.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Black Forest View Post
              I use sk40 collets for most things on my mill. I have special sk40 holders for endmills and drill chucks but I rarely use them. With the collets I don't lose any headroom.
              X2 on what BF said but I use TG100 collets they grip very good,collets up to 1" in 64" increment,the only time I switch out the ISO 40 when using my Face mill or my adapter to MT 4.My drill chucks have short straight 3/4" stubs for gripping with the collets.The Hyd brake on Varnamo very handy for tooling changes.I got the collet holder from Sowa Tool,and bought the collets used off Ebay.
              Last edited by Tundra Twin Track; 08-01-2017, 11:25 AM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Black Forest View Post
                I use sk40 collets for most things on my mill. I have special sk40 holders for endmills and drill chucks but I rarely use them. With the collets I don't lose any headroom.
                I wonder if sk 40 and iso 40 are the same. What size collet do you suggest and is this an ER system?

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                • #9
                  edit: better not say anything of tapers
                  Last edited by MattiJ; 08-27-2017, 05:07 PM.

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                  • #10
                    ISO40 gloat gloat gloat

                    All the 40 tapers are the same up as far as the drawbar / pull-stud - the drawbar threads in ISO40 are M16x2, the Imperial are usually 5/8" x 11tpi (though I've found sometimes the cutaway for the drive dogs can differ - I've had to grind them a little deeper on one of my holders).

                    EvilBay can be a good source *IF* you get a bit of a steal, this week for £25 (about $40 US including petrol to dive over and pick 'em up) I got: an Albrecht 1/2" drill chuck, a WNT tension/compression tapping chuck (no collets, though), 22 and 27mm facemill holders (need to buy the mills...), 2 MT3 adaptors, 2 MT4, 16, 20, 25 and 32mm sidelock milling cutter holders, in total 19 pieces of tooling... It was a steal though! Nobody else bid, my suspicion is that most hobbyists in the UK have er... smaller mills, and want R8 or MT tooling, industrial users will buy new?

                    I got the mill with a Clarkson Autolock milling chuck, 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2" collets, only, and I've since bought an ER32 chuck and a couple of MT adaptors cheap (EvilBay, of course) and bought something described as "Engineers Paper Weight Machine Part Thing" for £15 inc' postage which is a metric 75mm boring head in need of a 1&1/2" x18 taper arbor that looks unused... So far I *haven't* spent more than I did on the machine on tooling, I hope not to (I'm cheap, me!). The EvilBay steal has gone a long way towards getting the mill tooled, as has the World's Best Skip that I rescued about 60 endmills (almost all still sharp, many carbide, from 2mm to 30mm) from last weekend - hell, if I've got to go to work on a Saturday I'm diving in while nobody's looking

                    I think I need a tooling rack, and more space...

                    Dave H. (the other one)
                    Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men.

                    Holbrook Model C Number 13 lathe, Testa 2U universal mill, bikes and tools

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hopefuldave View Post
                      All the 40 tapers are the same up as far as the drawbar / pull-stud - the drawbar threads in ISO40 are M16x2, the Imperial are usually 5/8" x 11tpi (though I've found sometimes the cutaway for the drive dogs can differ - I've had to grind them a little deeper on one of my holders).

                      EvilBay can be a good source *IF* you get a bit of a steal, this week for £25 (about $40 US including petrol to dive over and pick 'em up) I got: an Albrecht 1/2" drill chuck, a WNT tension/compression tapping chuck (no collets, though), 22 and 27mm facemill holders (need to buy the mills...), 2 MT3 adaptors, 2 MT4, 16, 20, 25 and 32mm sidelock milling cutter holders, in total 19 pieces of tooling... It was a steal though! Nobody else bid, my suspicion is that most hobbyists in the UK have er... smaller mills, and want R8 or MT tooling, industrial users will buy new?

                      I got the mill with a Clarkson Autolock milling chuck, 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2" collets, only, and I've since bought an ER32 chuck and a couple of MT adaptors cheap (EvilBay, of course) and bought something described as "Engineers Paper Weight Machine Part Thing" for £15 inc' postage which is a metric 75mm boring head in need of a 1&1/2" x18 taper arbor that looks unused... So far I *haven't* spent more than I did on the machine on tooling, I hope not to (I'm cheap, me!). The EvilBay steal has gone a long way towards getting the mill tooled, as has the World's Best Skip that I rescued about 60 endmills (almost all still sharp, many carbide, from 2mm to 30mm) from last weekend - hell, if I've got to go to work on a Saturday I'm diving in while nobody's looking

                      I think I need a tooling rack, and more space...

                      Dave H. (the other one)
                      We dont have evil bay.Nice score.

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                      • #12
                        Somebody was kind enough to paint "marks office" on the side of the skip (dumpster) in work, the stuff I dragged out was insane (British steel, later tata with an orange bit in the middle) how in gods name I got a 14" rotary table out was boardering on insane, they reckoned it gave me my first heart attack, may be right!
                        I have a 40 taper mill, well 2 really as there's a little denbeigh that takes them, I made a lot of holders, the barbaric kind, grind a flat and clamp the endmills directly with grub screws, I thought it would be difficult but in honesty it was fairly easy once the taper was set on the top slide ( I clocked over a manufactured one, no measuring involved, I just copied one that was free of dings.
                        A clarkson is handy, collets aren't super rare, as you say eBay yields 40 taper cheap as there's not the home shop demand, in fact I got a load of 50 taper for a friend cheaper than an R8
                        As it's going to be a ban good job I'd go with ER, they are cheap and the quality is fairly good.
                        Mark

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                        • #13
                          Not just tools in ours, either - 3-foot long 6" stainless rounds, bit of a job to get those out...
                          I was defeated on Saturday morning though, pallet truck was just too heavy and buried - friendly forklift driver tried picking it out by the handle, but just dropped it further in!

                          I bought a Bong Gad ER32 on a 150mm x 20dia' shaft, minimal runout and well finished, it may be the work holder for a cutter grinder when I get the tuits (having rescued those endmills from World's Best Skip, I'd better keep them sharp!). Haven't bought any 40-taper tooling from them yet, not sure they do it - I'll investigate as one can't have too much tooling

                          Dave H. (the other one)
                          Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men.

                          Holbrook Model C Number 13 lathe, Testa 2U universal mill, bikes and tools

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by plunger View Post
                            We dont have evil bay.Nice score.
                            "we" don't have ebay either but I still have ordered more than 300 orders from ebay
                            Having said that I admit that your situation sucks because many chinese ebay sellers don't want to deal with any of the african countries.

                            You could check if (chinese) Aliexpress.com sellers are more willing to ship to SA.

                            Another alternative might be to set package forwarding service to somewhere like Germany, order all the crap that you wish to your german "mailbox" and then they will combine and ship it to you in single shipment. That way you can get many of the good deals that would be otherwise available only locally. (https://www.mailboxde.com/ is one of the such companies)

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