Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Spin indexer question

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Spin indexer question

    I'm between mills and also between houses (funny how those go together) and have a dividing head, import 5C spin indexer and a Hardinge HV-4 5C indexer.

    Without being able to use, is there any reason to keep the import 5C indexer? The big dividing head and the Hardinge seem complementary, while the two indexers seem redundant.

    Thanks,
    Rich

  • #2
    Are not the spin indexers done by degrees?

    if you have nothing else that goes by degrees, that may be a good thing to keep. If the Hardinge does degrees, the spindexer might be superfluous, since both are 5C.
    1601

    Keep eye on ball.
    Hashim Khan

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi,

      Having used all of those repeatedly over the years, I can firmly say it depends on what you want to do.

      A dividing head is a heavy thing that is slow to set up and overly complex for many simple jobs. But great for gear cutting and other complex indexing needs.

      The Harding is also a bit of any effort to setup sometimes. Loading collets into the fixture is clumsy - try swapping out different sizes while vertical. But you can easily stand it vertical for simple indexing.

      The humble import 5C is light and can be easy and very fast to set up. If you take a bit of time to mill the base square, you can then easily toss into the vise on your mill table and simply go to work. Downside is they put the collet on the wrong end. The indexing scale should be at the back of the fixture to give and better clearance to the work piece. I remachined mine to allow for that. Which is extra work that shouldn't be needed.

      If you want to cut gears, keep the dividing head. If you don't care about gear cutting, sell that and keep the two indexers. Or only one. Your call.
      If you think you understand what is going on, you haven't been paying attention.

      Comment


      • #4
        Like you, I have cheap stuff and I have good stuff. The cheap stuff is sometimes abused when I want to do things that are not good for the tool. I can see using the cheap spin indexer as a welding fixture, for instance.


        Dan
        At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and extra parts.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
          Are not the spin indexers done by degrees?

          if you have nothing else that goes by degrees, that may be a good thing to keep. If the Hardinge does degrees, the spindexer might be superfluous, since both are 5C.

          Hi,

          The Hardinge is a fancier indexer and will index in whole degrees. It also offers a quick lock/release lever for opening and closing the collet. Very nice on the whole, but expensive to acquire for most. Hard to justify for a once or twice use every year.
          If you think you understand what is going on, you haven't been paying attention.

          Comment


          • #6
            I've got the Yuasa clone of Hardinge, very nice device. The import one duplicates imo, but for what you'd get flogging it, I don't know, I probably put it on the bottom shelf

            true confessions though, the thing the gets most frequently used in my shop for indexing are those hex and square 5C collet blocks. Its basic 4 or 6 indexing, but that's what the task is 90% of time and its oh so handy just clamping it in the vice
            .

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by dalee100 View Post
              Hi,

              The Hardinge is a fancier indexer and will index in whole degrees. It also offers a quick lock/release lever for opening and closing the collet. Very nice on the whole, but expensive to acquire for most. Hard to justify for a once or twice use every year.
              Ah. I see, then.

              Mostly when I see "indexer" (aside from the asian spin indexers) I think of a unit with plates for direct indexing, as it is more generally useful for gears, splines, etc. Not too many things like that divide well into degrees, but of course whole angles do, 30, 45, 60, 90 deg etc, and they are reasonably common. And certain numbers of gear teeth of course.

              But, of course the asian units were based on other existing units.
              1601

              Keep eye on ball.
              Hashim Khan

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks all. The problem is I think I'm going to have less space and anything I keep has to be packed and moved.

                Getting more depressed about moving every day.
                Rich

                Comment


                • #9
                  I would keep the cheap indexer and sell the hardinge . I have done a lot of work with the import indexer. even used it on the surface grinder to make punches for dies.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    As I see it, these are three different devices. And which you want/need depends on what you are going to be doing.

                    The simplest is the import spin indexer. It has a 36 division plate with a 10 hole vernier so you can index on any whole degree for a total of 360 divisions. You can divide by any whole number factor of 360 which will include 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, etc. Notice that some numbers, like 7 and 11 are missing. As you go to higher numbers, more will be missing; 180 and then 360 will be the final two possible divisions. Since 7 and 11 are missing, all their multiples will also be missing. This imposes a restriction if you are cutting gears as only certain numbers of teeth are possible and that means that only certain gear ratios are possible. This, for instance, could be problematic if you are making change gears for a lathe as some threads would require those missing divisions. But if you are only interested in things like hole circles or making parts with 3, 4, 5, 6 sides, then it may be all you need.

                    The Hardinge is a bit more versatile in that it probably has interchangeable plates with different hole circles. So, with it you can probably divide by any number of divisions that they make a plate for. The only problem is that you will need the collection of plates.

                    The indexer is the most versatile of these, but it also has it's problems. Yes, you can use it for almost any number of divisions, but you will still need a plate that incorporates the needed prime numbers that are not included in it's worm gear ratio. So for something like a 56 tooth gear you would probably need a plate with an even multiple of 7 divisions (14, 28, etc.). And even if the maker of the indexer does not provide the needed division plate, there are ways of making your own with any number of divisions by using it. In short the indexer is the most versatile of the three, but it is also the most expensive and bulky.

                    Which ones you need strictly depend on what you will be doing with them.
                    Paul A.

                    Make it fit.
                    You can't win and there is a penalty for trying!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Are the dividing head and Hardinge HV-4 both in good condition? If so, then I would be inclined to hang on to them both, seeing as the investment in quality has already been made. The import spin indexer on the other hand, is usually something you can replace on short notice via several of the internet shopping venues, if the need for its features suddenly crops up.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        In looking up what the HV-4 looks like I found that the current list price is $10,300 from Hardinge........ But some other references suggested that they sell used for a small fraction of that amount.

                        Let's face it, in a HOME shop the square and hex collet blocks will do the lion's share of any simple dividing we need to do. The spindexer can pick up anything semi fancy that can't be done with the blocks and for those seriously critical needs there's the dividing head. The HV4 is a sweet looking bit of kit but with the 24 or 36 hole plate and no way to fit between it is only marginally more useful than a set of collet blocks. The cheap Chiconium spindexer with the 1 degree verniers is more capable for splitting a circle. Not as robust or rigid perhaps but more settable. And of course for the serious jobs the dividing head can do it all.

                        In the end though you know what sort of things you do and have done and you are in the best position to know which is better for your needs. Where I see the Hardinge unit working well is when using it in the vertical position. Can't do that with a spindexer without a fancy angle plate mounting setup.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Wait just a sec here.... I thought someone said the Hardinge were another "by degrees" indexer, but the (very minimal) description I found in a small brochure mentions index plates (20 and 24 position) but does NOT mention anything about indexing by degrees (whether it does that or not I have no idea).

                          In that case, the Hardinge is just a less-capable duplicate of the regular dividing head. You can sell it and keep the Spindexer, so you keep both the indexing by degrees and the indexing by number of divisions. The Hardinge with only the 24 position plate would handle 2, 3 ,4, 6, 8, 12, and 24 positions, and if you had the plate for 20, would add 5, 10, and 20. But you can do that with the dividing head, a little less conveniently.

                          Indexing by degrees is handy for toolmaking, but much practical dividing is by number of divisions. And, many common angles also come out in number of divisions, such as 30, 45, 60, 90 etc.

                          You probably want the dividing head and the spindexer for most versatility.
                          1601

                          Keep eye on ball.
                          Hashim Khan

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            That's what I got from the writeups I found. And apparently there is a 36 position plate. A video on the HV-4 described the plates as having set screws in them so depending on which screws are set one way and those that are pulled back you get a number of indexing holes. But definitely not a by degrees deal.

                            The upside of the Hardinge unit is the ability to easily use it in both horizontal and vertical modes. Not a thing which is easy with the regular spindexer. So there's something to be said for the Hardinge unit.

                            Frankly for what a spindexer weighs and for the room it takes up I'd say take all three. There are likely other places to save bulk and weight. Or at least I'd postpone THIS decision or avoid it in favor of taking a cold and realistic look around the rest of your shop holdings.

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X