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  • #16
    OK, it's the big one and you have steps down into the shop to deal with. Now some of this may be obvious but here goes.... First up build a long ramp to cover the stairs and so that the ends are flushed or feathered well to the stairs and floor. Work it so it breaks down and can be easily stored away in small convenient pieces. But make it sturdy. Next is to either buy the darn engine hoist or to build up a beefed up version of a playground swing but with some sort of tension bar or cable closing the lower side of the end "V"s to make them triangles so the load doesn't make the legs splay out. Again I'd make it so you can break it down to two "V"s and the one cross piece. Erect as required and use your B&T to do the lifting. The neat thing is that it can be used indoors or out. But since it can't move on it's own it will rely on you driving under it, so make it wide enough to allow that, and lowering onto sleds that can be rolled around and then down the ramp to the shop floor.

    As I say I'm sure some of this you already fully realize. And for loading and off loading from a trailer or truck bed it would work like a treat. But it's no good for lifting and moving to a higher point such as lifting the mill off the floor and onto a bench. Or lifting the head and column up and moving over and positioning over the base that is already on the bench.

    So all in all the engine hoist idea still is the winner in my books. On soft surfaces where it can't roll it can still be used to lift and lower from a truck or trailer which you drive under than away. And then onto a sled for movement to the ramp. And once in the shop where the wheels on the hoist can work you can lift and move an item into place. So all in all if you have to buy materials to build a "swing set" frame to use with the B&T then I'd say it would be better to put that towards just buying an engine hoist.

    Of course that may or may not help you TODAY. In this case just do what you need to do. But just consider that the head itself even without the motor is a hellish thing to lift. The column doesn't make it any better either.
    Chilliwack BC, Canada

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    • #17
      For moving a mill, there might be something of use here:

      http://bullfire.net/Mill/Milling%20Machine.html

      Ed
      For just a little more, you can do it yourself!

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      • #18
        I moved a round column mill-drill into my shop and onto the bench by myself. I'd had it delivered somewhere the trucker could unload it and I could do some disassembly and move it in the car. I pulled the saddle off forward along with the table since it could come off easily. Also lifted the head off the column so I now had three pieces that were more manageable and I could lift on my own.

        Reassembly in the shop didn't go quite as planned. The table/saddle was fine, but it sat on a bench with limited head room. That is, there was enough for the mill but not enough for me to stand up straight and get the head assembly threaded back on the column. I finally resorted to jacking and cribbing. I could lift the head up and stand it on the table on stacked 2x4's with room for a jack. Lift up, add blocks, lower jack and block it up for another lift. When it was finally high enough and modestly supported underneath, I could then slide it over the top of the column.

        Regarding the base/column joint. After assembly I swept the table with an indicator and found it was good in the Y direction but off in X. I loosened the bolts enough to shim and check until it trammed satisfactorily both ways.
        .
        "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

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        • #19
          It would certainly be wise to make a felt pen witness mark across the column to base joint just so it goes back on the same way.


          Getting back to the hoist and 3PL's post above. I've got the folding version and yeah, I heartily recommend it over a fixed "foot" version.

          And being a true blue home shop sort I've modified it of course I shortened the legs by about a foot to make it easier to maneuver around the confines of the shop. This means I can't use the further out extension position but that's OK. I also made up a riser block that reduces the fall of the boom but allows me to get the chain hook on the end up to just a bit over 8 feet off the ground in the last usable extension hole. And what it cost by not lowering as much isn't a dimension I'm worried about. And I can always remove the riser anyway.

          The last thing I want to do is modify it to accept larger size nylon tire casters. That'll make it MUCH easier to roll around over my floor that has some anti slip sand incorporated in the coating.

          All in all I'd say that SOME form of heavy lifting gear is pretty much a mandatory feature of any home shop other than those that focus on mini and micro machining. So it's worth some serious thought and even some precious funds.

          Which may or may not help you out with TODAY'S requirement.
          Last edited by BCRider; 10-17-2017, 05:06 PM.
          Chilliwack BC, Canada

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Norman Bain View Post
            Would assist heaps if you provided a link to a site that showed a photo of the type of mill.

            Regardless, I would recommend that you do NOT remove the column from the base; especially if the mill is the round column type. For the round column type that connection should be left alone.
            see if this works

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            • #21
              I am starting to warm up to the idea of an engine hoist.

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              • #22
                Awww heck, you got a Radio Flyer wagon? That's all you need

                EDIT: Never mind, I thought it was the mini bench-top unit, that's the 750lb shipped one so probably weighs ~700 outside of the crate...
                Last edited by ; 10-17-2017, 05:19 PM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by 3 Phase Lightbulb View Post
                  Ditto... Get A HF engine hoist now if you don't already have one... I've removed everything from a 2000lb lathe from the back of a truck, to a 6' tall air compressor (top heavy) with mine and 100's of stuff in between. They are best with a smooth floor, or a paved driveway but can also be some-what-easily moved over small bumps/ruts/thresholds/etc. I think I have HF's 2-ton engine hoist which is great, but I wish I got the folding version as it's a pain to store when you don't need it. I suppose I could take it apart to store it completely away, but it's do damn useful... Even the kids like to play with it and jack their bikes or riding toys in the air so it even kills two stones with one bird

                  Your welcome to borrow mine, or my pallet truck, or dolly if your in MA.
                  generous thank you - I'm in Maine so I'll just go buy one - good advice

                  i added my location just now - you didn't miss it before
                  Last edited by 01-7700; 10-17-2017, 05:22 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 01-7700 View Post
                    I have one of those. It was my first mill.

                    They are tricky to lift with lifting equipment. However I attempt it the shroud for the drive belts is compromised ... read, likely to get bent.

                    I also have the metal stand. If needing to move it far I try to get under it with forklift ... yes yes not an option for you.

                    If needing to move it a meter or two I find I can "walk it" by rocking it (mill and all) on corners of the stand. Yes yes ... I know you do not have the stand.

                    I did remove the head when I first trailered it home in order to get it into the shed. Seriously dang heavy. I did manage to do it but it really is a two man job. Positioning the head above the column accurate enough then lowering it all by hand is tricky. The whole thing is an odd shape and you cannot really lift it by the shroud. Removal of the shroud is not really and option ... though I did try but the bolts holding the spindle would not undo.

                    I have been considering drilling two holes (say 10mm) one each side thru the top of the cast iron column. In those holes I would put a U-bolt and lift from there with engine crane.

                    I think it would need two holes in order to properly balance the stress on the column walls. One hole (with just one u-bolt) may risk breaking out a portion of the wall.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by 01-7700 View Post
                      Ya, I bought one. I know it's not a real mill, but then I'm not a real machinist. I'm just a dreamer at this point.
                      BTW, At 700+lbs, I'd consider it a real mill. And since you will soon own a real mill, go ahead and accept the fact that you're a real machinist. Hell, I've seen plenty of real machinists on here that wish they had a mill. Congrats! Just make sure you don't get hurt moving her into the shop...

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Norman Bain View Post
                        I have one of those. It was my first mill.

                        They are tricky to lift with lifting equipment. However I attempt it the shroud for the drive belts is compromised ... read, likely to get bent.

                        I also have the metal stand. If needing to move it far I try to get under it with forklift ... yes yes not an option for you.

                        If needing to move it a meter or two I find I can "walk it" by rocking it (mill and all) on corners of the stand. Yes yes ... I know you do not have the stand.

                        I did remove the head when I first trailered it home in order to get it into the shed. Seriously dang heavy. I did manage to do it but it really is a two man job. Positioning the head above the column accurate enough then lowering it all by hand is tricky. The whole thing is an odd shape and you cannot really lift it by the shroud. Removal of the shroud is not really and option ... though I did try but the bolts holding the spindle would not undo.

                        I have been considering drilling two holes (say 10mm) one each side thru the top of the cast iron column. In those holes I would put a U-bolt and lift from there with engine crane.

                        I think it would need two holes in order to properly balance the stress on the column walls. One hole (with just one u-bolt) may risk breaking out a portion of the wall.
                        I found this out there on the web a few weeks ago - my plan is counting on this being true.

                        http://www.truetex.com/movemill.htm

                        "In the garage, the wheels gave me freedom to roll the unit to its target location, but I puzzled over an attachment method to hoist the unit onto its stand. The belt cover on the top of the machine is so large as to make a sling very difficult or unstable to attach. I decided to remove the belt cover to expose the top of the milling head, hoping to find a threaded hole or other attachment point that must have been necessary for production of the tool. This removal required removing the spindle pulley and nut, the idler pulley bracket, and the motor wiring. Once exposed, I didn't find any threaded holes other than the rather small M8x1.25 bolts for the cover (an M8 eyebolt would be marginal for this load, and would have to be mail-ordered). However, I did discover that the center of the head casting was hollow and that the hollow passed completely through the top and bottom behind the spindle. Indeed, it was not necessary for me to have removed the belt cover; it would have been simpler to have cut a hole in the sheet metal of the cover and then pass a chain or cable through the passage. This passage would permit the use of a bracket consisting of a plate and eyebolt. To make such a bracket, I happened to have piece of scrap 4-inch steel angle, 10 inches long. Into this I drilled a 1/2-inch hole and attached a 1/2-inch eyebolt. This eyebolt was the open-ended hardware-store type without a load rating, not the stronger forged type rated for lifting, but looking over the load ratings of the forged types in the MSC catalog convinced me that the open hook style had to have no problem holding 800 lbs. Now I had an attachment point for a hoisting chain which was about centered on the unit and near the top of the geometry, which makes for a secure and steady lift."

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                        • #27
                          Norman,
                          The head of most of these mills is hollow. Please see post no. 10. It is simpler to put one hole through sheet metal than 2 through a casting. If you lift from the column as you suggest the center of gravity will be WAAAY forward of your pick point. You don't need to take the belt guard off. Just leave it open.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Illinoyance View Post
                            A friend of mine disassembled a mill drill just as you described so he could get it out of the basement. It works but is a lot of work. One of the biggest problems moving the mill-drill is there is really no good way to get a hold of it for moving. I solved the problem on a Shop Fox several years ago. I drilled a hole through the sheet metal that formed the bottom of the belt guard. That let me drop a threaded rod through the hole. I had an eye nut on the top. On the bottom I had a flat bar that spanned the opening in the bottom of the headstock. And, of course a nut. That provided a convenient point for lifting with the engine hoist.
                            I didn't catch that you were talking about the same machine - very encouraging!

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                            • #29
                              If you buy an engine hoist, try and get one with a swivel hook. I'm not sure what is available over there, but here in Australia, most of the engine hoists that are affordable to a home machinist are cheap Chinese units with a fixed hook. Its a real PIA.
                              As you are probably well aware it would also pay you to have a look at a few different brands before buying. The quality of construction varies considerably. The one I have (for about 15 years now) does the job but it has a fixed hook (on my to do list) and the wheels are not too good either. Cast Iron wheels where the bore is not concentric to the periphery (also on the list). Another issue is there is that much slop between the pins and holes of the folding legs, when you put a load on it the main wheels at the back of it come off the ground so the load then goes onto the smaller casters which are really only there to hold the thing up when its in the folded position.
                              Best of luck
                              peter

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                              • #30
                                Mine does not have a swivel hook either. But it did come with a few links of heavy chain. And the opening is such that I can use one link or slide that first link around and use the second link on the through pin. That provides me with a way to at least position the hook in line with the boom or cross ways to it. I think that the couple of links of chain is fairly common from the ones I've glanced over in the stores to see if any "development changes" have been done since I bought mine.

                                Although.... a proper swivel hook WOULD be a nice feature. If you can get one for only slightly more than great. Otherwise adding an aftermarket swivel hook would be another option.


                                My hoist came with big bolts for all the pivot locations and locking pins. I do screw on the nuts but I never bother doing them up more than finger tight if they are pins that need to be taken out to allow breaking the hoist down for storage. They ain't gonna walk off the bolts in just a couple of boom lifts after all.

                                For storage I lift the legs up and put in the pins needed. I also made up a couple of wood wedges so that when I inevitably grab one of the legs to move it the leg doesn't scare the beegeebuzz out of me when it shifts even if it only shifts so far then hits the parking pin and no more. Highly recommended. And since the boom doesn't really fully collapse remove the boom pivot pin, lift the boom around to behind and remount it so it hangs down the back of the upright. I then strap it in place so it fits in neatly. The same strap goes around the cylinder and keeps it from falling forward. Not that it wants to but I refer you back to how I like to grab the wrong part to shift the thing around? So yeah, the strap is a pretty good idea.....

                                We should start a new thread on how we've all modified out own HF and equivalent hoists. I bet it would be a superb reference for others and times like this to "seal the deal". Next bit of sunshine we get here I'm going to take mine out and get a few photos to add to the album. I'll even photo and draw up that riser block that has proven so handy.
                                Chilliwack BC, Canada

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