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An answer as to Evapo-rust and springs breaking

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  • #16
    Need support? I love ER and have never had a problem with springs. I think most (like me) are just tired of the arguments. I have used and will continue to use all methods across many conditions; some of which ER is perfect for (and hard to name those for which it it is not).
    Last edited by lakeside53; 11-02-2017, 07:14 PM.

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    • #17
      I am NOT ANTI EVAPORUST. I do not use it, because I don't care to pay 5x more for the same result, but it may do a somewhat cleaner job of removal.....Not having used it, I cannot compare the two directly

      The only thing I recall arguing about is the idea that phosphoric costs many times more than Evaporust. It does not.

      I have proclaimed widely and repeatedly that my preferred de-rusting material (phosphoric) DOES do the stress corrosion. I based that ALSO on "one or two experiences", so please feel just as free to disbelieve those. Others have chimed in with similar comments about electrolysis, which I have also used, but find to be too messy. I never had any corrosion issue with electrolysis, but have not used it in years.

      Contrary to the words some are trying to put into my mouth, obviously I am not trying to promote an alternative. I have already warned about the matter with respect to my favorite material, phosphoric, so clearly this is not in any way some sort of comparison and contrast situation. There are no claims of E-R doing damage and others being completely benign. Frankly, some folks appear to be acting silly about the matter, jumping in to to defend where nobody is attacking, loudly shouting "you have not proved a thing".

      I am not trying to "prove anything". We have had folks mention that they have had problems with that corrosion issue using phosphoric etc. Now here is a guy saying the same about Evaporust, who seems very surprised and puzzled, so he did not come in looking to "prove" anything either. He;s just reporting what happened, and I'm just linking it in hopes of helping others avoid the problem.

      If you choose to disbelieve it just because it is not a controlled experiment, then you are being inconsistent and showing a bias if you do not ALSO disbelieve every OTHER report of similar activity with phosphoric, vinegar, molasses and so forth, as none of them are "controlled experiments" either. Logically, if you have no ax to grind, you should treat all of the reports the same. You do not get to pick and choose without showing a bias.

      BTW, the first time I saw the effect with phosphoric was when I stuck a similar caliper in for what was intended to be a few minutes, but turned into 3 hours when I was called away and forgot about it. That one had no cracks or thick rust on it, either, just a small amount of rust that I wanted to remove. I did not disassemble it because it is a simple mechanism and needed only a short treatment. The phosphoric ate a groove right across the spring, but did NO other damage, so it was arguably a case of stress-induced corrosion.
      Last edited by J Tiers; 11-02-2017, 07:54 PM.
      2801 3147 6749 8779 4900 4900 4900

      Keep eye on ball.
      Hashim Khan


      It's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there.

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      • #18
        I like Evaporust too, put me in that camp. And I have dunked whole electric motors to get internal rust off, and the motors are still running fine years later.

        I'm writing to say that I believe it isn't strictly necessary to bake things to deal with hydrogen embrittlement. I think the hydrogen will be nearly gone in a week or so just sitting. It just works its way out of the crystal lattices FASTER if you heat everything up. It's possible I'm misremembering but there ya go.

        Finally, I wonder if somehow Evaporust caused grain growth in those springs, rather than accelerating oxidation.

        And thanks for bringing this up, I find this topic to be relevant, important and fascinating.

        metalmagpie

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        • #19
          Yeah, I dont like it. Love it Just cleared the shelf at HF. Got a big job coming up and for what it is I like ER better then electrolysis. Just easier actually. JR

          My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

          https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

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          • #20
            The experience from the PM thread seems worth keeping in mind.

            I use mainly phosphoric, but prefer ER for sensitive items, such as those with plated areas.

            In my uncontrolled experience, their efficacy is roughly the same, but phosphoric is cheaper and lasts longer.

            Ed
            For just a little more, you can do it yourself!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
              I am NOT ANTI EVAPORUST. I do not use it, because I don't care to pay 5x more for the same result, ...
              The only thing I recall arguing about is the idea that phosphoric costs many times more than Evaporust. It does not. ...
              Don't ER & phosphoric (40%) cost about the same, +- 10%?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Bob Engelhardt View Post
                Don't ER & phosphoric (40%) cost about the same, +- 10%?
                You are correct. I only use three diff processes for rust removal. Electrolysis, phosphoric acid (must for rust) and evaporust.

                The ER is around 23 a gallon and the must for rust is the same. Electrolysis is the least expansive but a lil more work. JR
                https://www.walmart.com/ip/Krud-Kutt...&wl13=&veh=sem
                My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

                https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

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                • #23
                  Never seen E-R that cheap. I have seen it in quarts, for about the same price of $20.

                  I refuse to go to walmart for a damn thing.
                  2801 3147 6749 8779 4900 4900 4900

                  Keep eye on ball.
                  Hashim Khan


                  It's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                    Never seen E-R that cheap. I have seen it in quarts, for about the same price of $20.

                    I refuse to go to walmart for a damn thing.
                    That link was for the phos acid. I buy my evaporust at harbor freight because it is within walking distance and is 23 bucks a gallon. JR
                    My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

                    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by JRouche View Post
                      ...
                      The ER is around 23 a gallon and the must for rust is the same. ...
                      I bought some ER to try (haven't yet) on Amazon for $20/gal, shipped (free with Prime).

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Bob Engelhardt View Post
                        Don't ER & phosphoric (40%) cost about the same, +- 10%?
                        Not around here. 1 gal ER around $23. 1 Gal 40% Phosphoric acid $14.98, but I cut it 2 or 3 to 1. It's the diluted phosphoric that I find works about as well as ER.

                        ED
                        For just a little more, you can do it yourself!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by ed_h View Post
                          Not around here. 1 gal ER around $23. 1 Gal 40% Phosphoric acid $14.98, but I cut it 2 or 3 to 1. It's the diluted phosphoric that I find works about as well as ER.

                          ED
                          I also dilute about the same amount. Reduces the cost per gallon considerably, and seems if anything, to work better when diluted a bit. Certainly no worse.

                          The phosphoric does a good job of cleaning brass, but first, you don't want to soak it too long, because it will etch away the zinc and leave copper. Also, keep the stuff you used for that purpose separate, because it may dump copper onto steel, causing an odd looking haze, at least.

                          it also does a bang up job of cleaning battery leakage gunk out of flashlights and battery holders. Takes only seconds in some cases.
                          2801 3147 6749 8779 4900 4900 4900

                          Keep eye on ball.
                          Hashim Khan


                          It's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            From http://evaporust.ca/faqs/

                            Q) I get a black film on some parts after using EVAPO-RUST™. What is it and how do I remove it?

                            A) The black is carbon from the steel. Generally high carbon steel is used in making items that are flexible (e.g. springs, saw blades) High carbon steel and tool alloy steel items when de-rusted will have a darker appearance. Much of the carbon can be removed simply by wiping with a cloth.
                            Correlation isn't causation of course but I do suspect there's a link between ^this^ and the springs breaking.
                            Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Arcane View Post
                              From http://evaporust.ca/faqs/



                              Correlation isn't causation of course but I do suspect there's a link between ^this^ and the springs breaking.
                              What makes evaporust so appealing to the average home garage mechanic like myself is the mildness of it. It is more forgiving of say any acid. Is it an acid? I never checked its PH.

                              For me the go to for anything that I care about will go in one of the electrolysis tanks. Nice lil half gallon tank for small stuff. Yes, I am a fan of very controlled current electrolysis rust removal. Oh, and a nice mix of chems for the electrolytes. You can dial the current down to where it is just nibbling.

                              For small springs and chit. JR
                              My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

                              https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by JRouche View Post
                                You are correct. I only use three diff processes for rust removal. Electrolysis, phosphoric acid (must for rust) and evaporust.

                                The ER is around 23 a gallon and the must for rust is the same. Electrolysis is the least expansive but a lil more work. JR
                                https://www.walmart.com/ip/Krud-Kutt...&wl13=&veh=sem
                                Surprisingly enough Princess Auto sells it here in a 13.2 L (3.5 US gallons) container for C$79.99 which is US$62.85 It even has a plastic container/strainer inside like the old pails of carb cleaner used to have.

                                Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

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