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An answer as to Evapo-rust and springs breaking

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  • dian
    replied
    "Just how much carbon do you think is in steel?"

    on a side note: steel composition is given in percent of weight. if you look at volume, things become quite different.

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  • JRouche
    replied
    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
    Necro thread revival!
    Thats whats cool about the internet. Nothing dies! It should create accountability for some folks to manage their words. Doesnt work for me JR

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  • J Tiers
    replied
    Necro thread revival!

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  • JRouche
    replied
    Originally posted by RB211 View Post
    Well this explains why the spokes on my mountain bike break while it’s not being used. At one point it was in the vicinity of a plastic jug of hydrochloric acid, in storage!!... Man, did I learn my lesson with that!
    Hahaa. That stuff is crazy. I made the mistake of keeping a sealed jug of muriatic in my garage. Oh my the rust. All that stuff goes outside in storage now. JR

    Leave a comment:


  • 754
    replied
    Find a banged up divider, poach the spring, fix yours .. move on..

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  • JoeLee
    replied
    I can't keep up with all these posts here but there are a lot of interesting thoughts.

    Keeping in mind..... that spring on the caliper is .062 in thickness. I don't know how bad or deep the pitting is or was on that spring, but even if it was .015 in depth on either side of the spring that reduces the thickness to around .032........... that cut it in half and diminishes the strength compounded with what ever the effect of ER may have had on it.

    JL................

    Leave a comment:


  • Corbettprime
    replied
    Originally posted by Lew Hartswick View Post
    :-) Why in the world would we do that on this (or any of the other) forum for a Metallurgy question when no one does it for an Electronic , Chemical, Human anatomic, or even a Philosophical question. Those all have "experts" available around the net. :-) I've quit answering electronic questions (as a retired electronic engineer RPE ) because of the kind of responses to this thread .
    ...lew...
    Over time, I've learned that "They that can, do, they that can't, give bad advice, and denigrate those who call them out on it"! The older I get, the more I find I don't" know!

    Leave a comment:


  • Lew Hartswick
    replied
    Originally posted by jhovel View Post
    . Maybe a metallurgist might know a reason too...
    Be interesting to find out.
    :-) Why in the world would we do that on this (or any of the other) forum for a Metallurgy question when no one does it for an Electronic , Chemical, Human anatomic, or even a Philosophical question. Those all have "experts" available around the net. :-) I've quit answering electronic questions (as a retired electronic engineer RPE ) because of the kind of responses to this thread .
    ...lew...

    Leave a comment:


  • RB211
    replied
    Well this explains why the spokes on my mountain bike break while it’s not being used. At one point it was in the vicinity of a plastic jug of hydrochloric acid, in storage!!... Man, did I learn my lesson with that!

    Leave a comment:


  • dan s
    replied
    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
    You are mounting such a strong defense of the product, but nobody is attacking IT, I am questioning your defensive stance. But not any longer, I am done messing with it, although I do not retract a single statement. You are welcome to the last word.
    "What about this", and "what about that" can easily be construed as an undermining attack, specially when its repeated multiple times.

    Leave a comment:


  • JCHannum
    replied
    I doubt it will be the last reply as I have seen you in action before. There is only one person professing that Evapo-Rust causes stress corrosion, yet you can offer no proof that it does. You present a post from PM in which a person has some springs that have failed, no claim of any kind that the failure can be attributed to Evapo-Rust has been put forward by anyone but you. You offer the unsubstantiated claim that you have seen this occur in a couple of instances, but offer no proof that it was indeed stress corrosion or that the cause was indisputably and only caused by immersion in Evapo-Rust.

    I am not defending the product, I am questioning the validity of your contention that Evapo-Rust causes stress corrosion. Your only argument is "Because I say it does." This does not carry much weight as far as I am concerned.

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  • J Tiers
    replied
    Originally posted by JCHannum View Post
    .....

    The Evaporust rep did not pivot away from the issue. His statement is "Evapo-Rust will not harm spring steel." That seems pretty unambiguous to me.
    That is different from "ER will not cause stress corrosion"..... And I'd question that if he had said it, since it apparently takes only a very slight corrosive tendency in normal conditions to turn into a rather large effect under stressed conditions. That's in one of the links.

    All I am suggesting is that the experience of the poster on PM is worth considering when de-rusting things. We seem to have got very far away from the original suggestions, which were basically "do not de-rust springs that are under stress", and "do not leave things in any of the de-rusting solutions any longer than you have to".

    You are mounting such a strong defense of the product, but nobody is attacking IT, I am questioning your defensive stance. But not any longer, I am done messing with it, although I do not retract a single statement. You are welcome to the last word.

    Leave a comment:


  • JCHannum
    replied
    There you go again, putting words into my mouth. Where did I say that embrittlement is a major factor in ALL stress corrosion, AND that it is limited to slow activity at high temperatures?

    One paper on stress corrosion is here;

    http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/stress.pdf

    This includes embrittlement as a factor. It includes time/temperature graphs showing time involved for stress corrosion to occur.

    I do not doubt the PM poster's statement that the springs failed, nor did I say that I did. What has no validity is to infer that stress corrosion is the result of his application. What no one knows is the condition of the springs prior to use of the ER. Corrosion of the calipers and springs did exist prior, otherwise why the need to immerse in ER. The extent is not known, nor is it known what the actual cause of the failure is. It can be somewhat safe to assume it was due to corrosion of some sort. Whether plain corrosion or stress corrosion is immaterial as it had more than likely occurred prior to immersion. Since the degree or type of corrosion prior to immersion is unknown/unproven, absolutely no assumptions can be made as to whether ER contributed to further corrosion or not.

    The PM poster did not conduct an experiment. He made no observation as to the cause of the failure. The only person making an assumption as to the cause is yourself. If a proper experiment is to be conducted, it would be along the lines of immersing known good samples of spring steel in ER over timed periods and observing the results. Perhaps at some point, SC will occur, but I doubt it would not be until long after anything approximating normal use would entail.

    The Evaporust rep did not pivot away from the issue. His statement is "Evapo-Rust will not harm spring steel." That seems pretty unambiguous to me.

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  • lakeside53
    replied
    well... That's not what ER web site says... and the "black" stuff wipes off unlike that when produced by electrolysis. I notice big difference in the "smut" from low carbon to high carbon steels.

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  • CCWKen
    replied
    Originally posted by Arcane View Post
    Particles of carbon in the rust makes sense since iron oxide itself is carbon free, but you're right! The carbon that was in the steel that rusts will be left over and that is what makes the black coating. My apologies, Sir!
    Particles of carbon? Just how much carbon do you think is in steel? The black is a ferric compound and that's what makes it black. It's the same process using the electrolytic method--Conversion of iron oxide. The black has nothing to do with carbon.

    Leave a comment:

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