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my mill just let out the magic smoke :(

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  • #61
    you know, this has happened to me a few times - I see a problem (cutter really struggling) and I get it in my head that it's because of one thing (blunt cutter) and only later realise that it's because of something completely different. Oh well, it was only 20min of soldering and it saved me buying a new rougher

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    • #62
      Originally posted by mattthemuppet View Post
      Now to the embarassing part - you know I said that my rougher was blunt. Weeeeeeellll it wasn't. I was running the mill in reverse (slaps forehead). Never thought to check.
      When the mill is turned on the cutter is going so fast it's hard to see which way it's spinning. The quickest way to check it is to wet your finger and hold it lightly against the bottom corner. If you aren't spurting blood after the test then it's running in reverse.

      Signed
      Stumpy

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      • #63
        Originally posted by mattthemuppet View Post
        Now to the embarassing part - you know I said that my rougher was blunt. Weeeeeeellll it wasn't. I was running the mill in reverse (slaps forehead).
        LOL. That's one of those really odd accidents that are so obvious in retrospect. It's most common when you are using a machine or tool that you are unfamiliar with simply because you don't know yet how that particular tool works when it's dull.

        My story is similar. My buddy wanted to make a slot from a hole in 1/2 inch aluminum plate. I let him use my mill, and he did everything right EXCEPT that he put it in reverse. He ran it for several minutes, and by the time that I realized there was a problem he'd managed to use so much force that the slot was halfway finished and the hole was filled in by the aluminum that he'd smeared around. You can imagine our surprise when we found the hole closed.

        Glad to hear that you figured out the problem AND that your mill is working as well as it should.

        Dan
        At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

        Location: SF East Bay.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by RichR View Post
          Which push in connectors are you referring to?
          This kind. I was dubious at first but did some research on the web and it seems a lot of Pros have switched to using these. They are not anything like the crappy stab connects that are in the back of receptacles. I think the "Kleenex" term used is "Wago", but there's several brands.

          Last edited by gellfex; 11-22-2017, 09:25 PM.
          Location: Jersey City NJ USA

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          • #65
            Originally posted by mattthemuppet View Post
            Now to the embarassing part - you know I said that my rougher was blunt. Weeeeeeellll it wasn't. I was running the mill in reverse (slaps forehead).
            Not as bad as my embarrassing moment tonight. I installed 1 of 2 industrial ceiling fans in my garage tonight. After mounting it I temporarily wired it up to see how it performs before installing the 2nd one. It sounded funny and had a very noticeable wobble. After closer inspection I discovered I installed one of the 3 blades upside down (grabbed top of head and turned clockwise to try and tighten thinking cap).

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            • #66
              Happy it wasn't the motor. Live learn repeat!

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              • #67
                Wouldn't it be great if running the machine in reverse was like an "undo" button? Putting the swarf back on the part or undrilling a hole...
                http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png
                Paul , P S Technology, Inc. and MrTibbs
                USA Maryland 21030

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by danlb View Post
                  LOL. That's one of those really odd accidents that are so obvious in retrospect. It's most common when you are using a machine or tool that you are unfamiliar with simply because you don't know yet how that particular tool works when it's dull.

                  My story is similar. My buddy wanted to make a slot from a hole in 1/2 inch aluminum plate. I let him use my mill, and he did everything right EXCEPT that he put it in reverse. He ran it for several minutes, and by the time that I realized there was a problem he'd managed to use so much force that the slot was halfway finished and the hole was filled in by the aluminum that he'd smeared around. You can imagine our surprise when we found the hole closed.

                  Glad to hear that you figured out the problem AND that your mill is working as well as it should.

                  Dan
                  I'll admit to doing that before.... At work I use universal angle heads in the CNC quite a bit. Because of the angling feature, the output spins opposite the input. If you see where I'm going here, you will know that you must change your program to M4 instead of M3... Something very easy to over look when your in a hurry and need to change something in your CAM file and re post a program. Of course I've now created a new post processor file to "dummy proof" it from myself now.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by gellfex View Post
                    Which is why I've stopped using wire nuts on #12 & 14 solid wire and use those newfangled push in connectors. What a joy!
                    I use the push in connectors that have small levers for each hole a wire goes into. You push your wire in and then push the lever down. This type you can release the wire if the need be and not have to cut the wire. The ones have accept five wires each.
                    Location: The Black Forest in Germany

                    How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Black Forest View Post
                      I use the push in connectors that have small levers for each hole a wire goes into. You push your wire in and then push the lever down. This type you can release the wire if the need be and not have to cut the wire. The ones have accept five wires each.
                      I like those too. But there an bunch of non-UL/whatever listed Chinese copies out there... Buy the genuine versions made by Wago.

                      Like these : https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000JJPA66...a-314836175243

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                        Those push-in connectors are probably less safe than a wire nut.... If the spring tension on the little tab relaxes, you have a bad connection in the making. If that causes heating, it WILL be a bad connection.

                        Use a wire nut and tighten it. Many manufacturers produce a little wrench to use that fits the nut. And some wire nuts have side tabs for your finger and thumb when tightening.
                        I avoid push-in connectors like the plague. It's hard to believe those things are rated for the current with as little contact area they provide. Every time I've had an outlet failure, it had a push-in connection.

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                        • #72
                          A cutaway of that Wago Wallnut on page 2:
                          http://www.wago.us/media/us/collecti...261593_new.pdf

                          Doesn't look different from any other push-in connector I've seen.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Black Forest View Post
                            I use the push in connectors that have small levers for each hole a wire goes into. You push your wire in and then push the lever down. This type you can release the wire if the need be and not have to cut the wire. The ones have accept five wires each.
                            Those look much better than push-in connectors. Of course they still can't apply the same contact area or force that a wire nut of screw terminal can. "Pros" only use them because they're fast. I'm curious what the Pros use in their own homes.

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                            • #74
                              The devil is in the details. The push-on do work and I see a lot of those those in OEM lighting fixtures where the wires are not stressed and lay nicely into the connector. I do not like those for general purpose use with 12awg solid core wiring... and I particularly hate them when I find them stuffed into a wall box where the wires literally rip themselves out of the connectors when rammed back by homeowners or numbskulls. BTW.. for those not in North America, you are often (not always) using flexible core wiring and will have a lot less issues. Here many don't understand how the wires should lay in a box when wired into a wire nut, and how to leave "loops" behind devices. Too-small boxes is another issue.

                              I use the lever types because they are fast, easy to disassemble and diagnose issues, but my use is low voltage commercial LED arrays. I have yet to see one used for 120 or 240v by any of the contractors I use in commercial build-outs. They are interested when i use them, but wander back to their buckets of wires nuts. There are billion of wire nuts in use, they are dead simply to install and very reliable. The secret is starting with dead straight wires laid parallel, then simply screw on tight. If the wires are bent or partially curled from prior use, you can have trouble. And.. use the correct sized nut!

                              I use wire nuts and spec-grade everything in my own home
                              Last edited by lakeside53; 11-23-2017, 12:16 PM.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Forestgnome View Post
                                A cutaway of that Wago Wallnut on page 2:
                                http://www.wago.us/media/us/collecti...261593_new.pdf

                                Doesn't look different from any other push-in connector I've seen.
                                They DO look different and better to me.

                                There is a frame, and a separate spring contact, by the look of it, and that does seem better, less likely to be damaged. I do NOT like the "pull and twist" wire removal. The fact that it is possible is an issue, as is the chance of numbskulls re-using connectors and not re-stripping the wire ends.

                                I do not like the stranded wire use either, although it does appear that there is a means to prevent the wire from spreading and loosening too much.

                                Yes, they are UL. So are the old trashy ones. UL is enforcing MINIMUM requirements, which is of course good, but do you really want to have items in your house that are "just barely good enough to pass when installed in a perfect manner under the most ideal conditions, and tested one time shortly after installation"? I do NOT want that.

                                UL assumes ONE failure. Improper installation would be considered one failure. They do not, in general, test for multiple failures, such as improper installation added to fault currents, etc, presumably because "improper installation" has so many different configurations. A few special UL tests include a pre-existing fault plus normal operation.

                                In some tests there is an "aging" process involved, to simulate extended usage. Since these are intended for protected use, indoors or in sealed systems, I don't think they do much "aging" before testing.

                                Bottom line is that they are newish, and do not have the history of safety that wire nuts do. I prefer to find out about the failures and fires in someone else's house, not mine.
                                Last edited by J Tiers; 11-23-2017, 01:51 PM.
                                CNC machines only go through the motions

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