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Heads up for those wanting a shop press cylinder

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  • Heads up for those wanting a shop press cylinder

    If you're looking for a good deal on a cylinder for a hydraulic shop press there is a good sale going on for some great cylinders-

    http://www.baileyhydraulics.com/Maxi...__utmk=3380016

    http://www.baileyhydraulics.com/Maxi...utmk=208270994

    Also they have some killer deals on valves and pumps-

    http://www.baileyhydraulics.com/Chie...utmk=229373724

    http://www.baileyhydraulics.com/Chie...utmk=208270994

    I bought several of the two spool control valves $29 can't beat that with a big stick.

    No affiliation,just passing on a deal,sale is good till Dec 31 IIRC
    Last edited by wierdscience; 11-29-2017, 04:58 PM.
    I just need one more tool,just one!

  • #2
    Valve question: does that valve go smoothly from off to full down and back to off in one direction, and off to full up and back down to off in the other? They call out "4-way 4-pos tandem • fine metering spring center to neutral" but I don't know exactly what that means.

    metalmagpie

    Comment


    • #3
      Also, that pump would work fine for getting fluid up to 3000 psi but its GPM @ 1800 is only 0.75 so the press ram would extend and retract very slowly. :-(

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by metalmagpie View Post
        Valve question: does that valve go smoothly from off to full down and back to off in one direction, and off to full up and back down to off in the other? They call out "4-way 4-pos tandem • fine metering spring center to neutral" but I don't know exactly what that means.

        metalmagpie
        See here-
        http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/...control-valves

        "A double-acting actuator requires a 4-way valve. A 4-way valve pressurizes and exhausts two ports interdependently. A 3-position, 4-way valve stops an actuator or allows it to float. The 4-way function is a common type of directional control valve for both air and hydraulic circuits. A 3-position, 4-way valve is more common in hydraulic circuits."

        So basically the valve is spring loaded to center (neutral) which means the work ports are blocked and the fluid flows through the valve and returns to the reservoir.Shifting the valve past center opens the work ports and sends fluid to and from the cylinder,shifting the valve past center in the opposite direction does the same,but reverses the flow through the valve thereby reversing the direction of cylinder travel.

        Fine metering means you can inch with it,instead of the valve being fully open of fully closed as would be the case in a solenoid or poppet valve.
        I just need one more tool,just one!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by wierdscience View Post
          If you're looking for a good deal on a cylinder for a hydraulic shop press there is a good sale going on for some great cylinders-

          http://www.baileyhydraulics.com/Maxi...__utmk=3380016

          http://www.baileyhydraulics.com/Maxi...utmk=208270994

          Also they have some killer deals on valves and pumps-

          http://www.baileyhydraulics.com/Chie...utmk=229373724

          http://www.baileyhydraulics.com/Chie...utmk=208270994

          I bought several of the two spool control valves $29 can't beat that with a big stick.

          No affiliation,just passing on a deal,sale is good till Dec 31 IIRC
          Now why do you haffta go and do THAT! One of those better jump while its there. But I dont need another project. Oh yeah. Need never has been my issue.

          Thanks for the heads up. JR
          My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

          https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by metalmagpie View Post
            Also, that pump would work fine for getting fluid up to 3000 psi but its GPM @ 1800 is only 0.75 so the press ram would extend and retract very slowly. :-(
            The same pump can be ran at 3600 rpm doubling the flow,if the press is being used to press bearings out and the like 30 odd seconds to travel 10" isn't too bad.Click the pdf link under the item cost to see the full spec sheet on the pumps.

            Then there is this one-

            http://www.baileyhydraulics.com/Chie...utmk=162576060

            They also have several other pumps on the inventory reduction sale price,but there is also a 25% off and free shipping on everything else in the catalog tomorrow only.
            I just need one more tool,just one!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JRouche View Post
              Now why do you haffta go and do THAT! One of those better jump while its there. But I dont need another project. Oh yeah. Need never has been my issue.

              Thanks for the heads up. JR
              May as well admit it,you're a tool junkie in need of another fix
              I just need one more tool,just one!

              Comment


              • #8
                OK guys,

                If I pull the trigger on the valve, which cylinder is going to do the job best? And what do we figure the press tonnage would be with this setup?
                OK I know lots of questions, I have the frame for a press but none of the hydraulics, so if this is a good deal what is the best package to make a press and how strong is the press?

                TX
                Mr fixit for the family
                Chris

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mr Fixit View Post
                  OK guys,

                  If I pull the trigger on the valve, which cylinder is going to do the job best? And what do we figure the press tonnage would be with this setup?
                  OK I know lots of questions, I have the frame for a press but none of the hydraulics, so if this is a good deal what is the best package to make a press and how strong is the press?

                  TX
                  Mr fixit for the family
                  Chris
                  Which cylinder will depend on how much tonnage your press frame will safely handle.Calculating cylinder force is fairly straight forward and is simply Piston area x system pressure.So in the example of the 5 x 10" cylinder in the link I posted,it has a piston area of 19.625 sq inches x 3,000 psi system pressure and we get 58,875 lbs of force or 29.43 tons.

                  Valves for this application are fairly straight forward,just a 4 way 4 position valve or a 3 way 4 position valve is all that's needed and it doesn't even have to be a high flow rate for a small press application 13 or even 5 gpm is more than enough.

                  Selecting a pump/motor combination is where the most variables come into play.It boils down to available HP-vs-RPM-vs-system pressure-vs-volume.The rule of thumb for figuring the HP need to drive a hydraulic pump is 1HP @ 1800 rpm will deliver 1 GPM @ 1500 PSI. So to get 1 GPM @ 3000 PSI you would need 2 HP driving the pump.
                  So how do you size a hydraulic pump to work with a motor you already have?Let's say you have a 5hp 1800 rpm motor.Using the rule of thumb,if you want to operate the system at 3000 psi,it will produce 2.5 GPM. So 2.5 gallons multiplied by the number of cubic inches in a gallon (231) gives us 577.5 cubic inches.If we divided that by the motor's rated RPM of 1800 we get .32 cubic inches per revolution.So what we would need is a pump that produces .32 ci/revolution at 1800 rpm.Now if you go looking through the catalogs and all you find are pumps that produce .31" instead of .32" don't sweat it,that pump will still produce the tonnage you require,but will yeild a little slower cylinder travel,with the trade off being your motor won't be working as hard at system pressure.

                  Surplus Center has some handy calculators-
                  https://www.surpluscenter.com/Tech-H...sp-HP-GPM-RPM/
                  Last edited by wierdscience; 11-30-2017, 12:04 AM.
                  I just need one more tool,just one!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wierdscience View Post
                    If you're looking for a good deal on a cylinder for a hydraulic shop press there is a good sale going on for some great cylinders-

                    http://www.baileyhydraulics.com/Maxi...__utmk=3380016

                    http://www.baileyhydraulics.com/Maxi...utmk=208270994

                    Also they have some killer deals on valves and pumps-

                    http://www.baileyhydraulics.com/Chie...utmk=229373724

                    http://www.baileyhydraulics.com/Chie...utmk=208270994

                    I bought several of the two spool control valves $29 can't beat that with a big stick.

                    No affiliation,just passing on a deal,sale is good till Dec 31 IIRC
                    Those valves do not appear to have a integral relief valve, many do. That will require a discrete relief valve and complicate plumbing and its expense.

                    A few months ago I built a loader from scratch for my john deere garden tractor. I had a 50% off coupon for Baileys but was still able to easily beat their prices. I bought a 4 spool valve with relief for less than half the baileys price, including their 50% coupon. What was real interesting was the company I got that valve from was OWNED by baileys !!! Surplus center has some good deals on hydraulics usually.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I just tried to get a shipping estimate and it came back Zero with a red X next to my zip code. Does that mean they don't ship to my zip or what?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sparky_NY View Post
                        Those valves do not appear to have a integral relief valve, many do. That will require a discrete relief valve and complicate plumbing and its expense.

                        A few months ago I built a loader from scratch for my john deere garden tractor. I had a 50% off coupon for Baileys but was still able to easily beat their prices. I bought a 4 spool valve with relief for less than half the baileys price, including their 50% coupon. What was real interesting was the company I got that valve from was OWNED by baileys !!! Surplus center has some good deals on hydraulics usually.
                        These valves do have a built in relief,it's adjustment nut is under the red cap next to the spool cover.

                        Bailey is just like anybody,some items will be cheaper and some more expensive.In the examples in this sale,well $29 for a two spool control valve is going to be very hard to beat.

                        Surplus Center does have some good deals,but just be careful.Some of their stuff is surplus and some of it was surplus for a reason.I bought two 1-1/2 bore cylinders from them recently,both were listed as new surplus,which they were.Upon removing the plastic port caps I found rust in the big end ports and stuck piston seals.I still saved some money,but lost some time disassembling and cleaning.
                        Last edited by wierdscience; 11-30-2017, 09:37 AM.
                        I just need one more tool,just one!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CCWKen View Post
                          I just tried to get a shipping estimate and it came back Zero with a red X next to my zip code. Does that mean they don't ship to my zip or what?
                          I get the red x here,but that is to remove the shipping estimate.

                          They have a 25% off and free shipping sale good through today use code CYBER17 BUT,that only applies to items not already on sale.Their shipping has always been reasonable,I ordered two single spool,two two spool valves and a couple hydraulic pumps and it was only $28.00 for about 45lbs via Fedex ground.
                          I just need one more tool,just one!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I don't know much of anything yet about hydraulics but am interested in putting some on a Shop Press frame.
                            On those Cylinders from Baliey that are shown as "welded" with two tie rod ends wouldn't it be difficult to
                            adapt the ends without being able to disassemble the cylinders ?

                            Larry S
                            Fort Wayne, IN
                            Larry Swearingen
                            Fort Wayne, IN
                            New Hoosier

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Larry Swearingen View Post
                              I don't know much of anything yet about hydraulics but am interested in putting some on a Shop Press frame.
                              On those Cylinders from Baliey that are shown as "welded" with two tie rod ends wouldn't it be difficult to
                              adapt the ends without being able to disassemble the cylinders ?

                              Larry S
                              Fort Wayne, IN
                              I've modified quite a few over years by cutting off what wasn't needed in the bandsaw.
                              Last edited by wierdscience; 11-30-2017, 02:57 PM.
                              I just need one more tool,just one!

                              Comment

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