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Battle Shaper - *clank* - I can't figure it out. HELP ???

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  • Battle Shaper - *clank* - I can't figure it out. HELP ???

    So the Battle Shaper is clean, green, and in place. I've done some surfacing with it, cleaning off the mill scale of some cast iron bars to make straightedges, etc. Then I began to notice a *CLANK*. I don't know if it's been there the whole time and I just noticed it of late, or if it has developed the clank.

    I've looked for the source of the clank. I can't find any gibs that are loose, any gears that are loose, etc. I have watched the works on the inside and I can't see any sudden resetting or shifting. The one part I can't see is where the yoke connects to the pin on the ram.

    Anyway, I thought I'd enlist the help of the hive-mind. To this end I've made a 2 minute video showing the Battle Shaper in action with and without *clank* Don't worry, this isn't "click bait" - I have not monetized anything, I have 6 subscribers, and I don't put up videos often enough to make it worth your time to subscribe. I just can't think of any other way to describe the problem better than letting you see and hear it.



    Thanks in advance for your help.

  • #2
    It definitely is about to explode, taking out both your garage and your house.

    I better come by and haul it away for you.

    Comment


    • #3
      No idea about the " clank", but you just GOT to love that pink 4 X6 bandsaw! Bob.

      Comment


      • #4
        It's always at the same point of ram travel... when it's stopped and about to change direction. The wheel at 1:57 is always at the point where the pin in the rotating part is at the same position. I'd look there???
        Last edited by danlb; 12-18-2017, 09:35 PM.
        At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and extra parts.

        Location: SF East Bay.

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        • #5
          Check the block that slides in the ram yoke (inside) for slop at the location where it clanks.

          BTW, I found one of the tools, and a big tool blank, but am still looking for the other big brazed tool that should be here...
          1601

          Keep eye on ball.
          Hashim Khan

          Comment


          • #6
            Maybe it's pissed off because you've got that pink chinese bandsaw parked next to it?
            Only seems to happen when the ram reverses.... That's a clue.

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            • #7
              It does appear that the machine is set for a rather long forward stroke and perhaps that is bringing you close to a 'top dead centre' situation somewhere. I suggest shorten the stroke and see if that changes the noise.

              John

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                Check the block that slides in the ram yoke (inside) for slop at the location where it clanks.

                BTW, I found one of the tools, and a big tool blank, but am still looking for the other big brazed tool that should be here...
                My thought too.

                It's correctly called a "Scotch yoke" or "Scottish yoke" but you get the idea.

                There is likely some play that is producing the clank. But when running at lower speed the time from pushing to pulling and for the block that slides between faces is moving more slowly so you don't get the CLANK.

                That block is supposed to be lubed at the start of each session. A thick way oil would be my suggestion.

                Oh, and I found my own smaller shaper was doing that a little too. I had lubed the ram dovetail with my bed way thick lube. When I unlocked the ram from the Scottish yoke I found that it "oozed" along easily enough but when pushed a little faster that there was a lot of viscous drag. I've since switched to the same lighter 10W non detergent oil I use for my lathe head main bearings and a lot of my own clank is gone. Depending on what sort of oil you're using for the ram you might be in the same boat.
                Chilliwack BC, Canada

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bob Fisher View Post
                  No idea about the " clank", but you just GOT to love that pink 4 X6 bandsaw! Bob.
                  Originally posted by reggie_obe View Post
                  Maybe it's pissed off because you've got that pink chinese bandsaw parked next to it?
                  It's not pink. It's ... um ... faded red. It's also right in the doorway and brightly lit. It's an old Horrible Fright bandsaw that seems to fail the color-fast test. It's not my fault. *sob*

                  Geeze guys, stop embarassing me. Yer as bad as my wife. Speaking of my wife, you can see the color she called sea-foam on the top handle and crank in the tool shelf. Yeah, I repainted all the rest with straight hunter green. Don't make me re-paint the band saw...



                  Here is an addendum video showing what happens when I hand crank the Battle Shaper. I didn't include it because you can't really see anything other than the fact that it does really happen exactly as the ram starts to reverse.

                  At the point of the clank I feel almost no resistance to turning. The circlular path that sliding block is traveling is nearly parallel to the axis to the ram, and it moves very easily. At that point I can easily turn the handle more rapidly. The the block starts to press against the side of the yoke and it gets HARD to turn the crank anymore. I wonder if it's sort of "getting ahead" at that point and then "taking up slack" as the block presses against the side of the yoke.

                  Last edited by Dan_the_Chemist; 12-18-2017, 10:29 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The Artful Bodger View Post
                    It does appear that the machine is set for a rather long forward stroke and perhaps that is bringing you close to a 'top dead centre' situation somewhere. I suggest shorten the stroke and see if that changes the noise.

                    John
                    It was set that long because I had been taking the surface scale off of some 22.5 " long dura-bars that I've had sitting around waiting to be turned into straight edges. Yes, the clank is much reduced when taking shorter strokes. Amazing machine that can handle such a job with ease.... it did take forever, but I got a nice finish.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Obviously approaching the end of the stroke the movement drops to zero for a moment which is when you feel the lack of resistance. I think the sliding block would need quite some clearance to make the 'clank' and am wondering if it is slack at the top end of that swinging arm where it connects to the ram.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My guess is that the block has some clearance against the slot in the crank arm of the whitworth mechanism. The clank is it tilting to a different angle in the slot as the force begins to change direction.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BCRider View Post
                          There is likely some play that is producing the clank. But when running at lower speed the time from pushing to pulling and for the block that slides between faces is moving more slowly so you don't get the CLANK.

                          That block is supposed to be lubed at the start of each session. A thick way oil would be my suggestion.

                          Oh, and I found my own smaller shaper was doing that a little too. I had lubed the ram dovetail with my bed way thick lube. When I unlocked the ram from the Scottish yoke I found that it "oozed" along easily enough but when pushed a little faster that there was a lot of viscous drag. I've since switched to the same lighter 10W non detergent oil I use for my lathe head main bearings and a lot of my own clank is gone. Depending on what sort of oil you're using for the ram you might be in the same boat.
                          INTERESTING. Yes, I used way oil (Vactra) for the ram ways. The clank has only been noticible when the temperature is low... Since my shop is not heated, low means 35- 40 F. I never noticed it when the temperature was a balmy 55 F.

                          Well, this will be a new line of enquiry. Thanks for the place to look.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            On the first "clank with the crank" I think there is visible motion of the sliding block, from right to left.

                            I suggest you rock it back and forth at the clanking point while videoing it, and see if you can spot motion there. Is there provision for taking up wear in the block?
                            Jim

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Possibly a worn "Die Block" or/and the bush/pivot it runs on? looking at your video's it seems to be at the extreme of the stroke where the forces change on the bush at bit like a worn car big end bearing, I dont know how your particular machine is put together but as a test I would personally be tempted remove the bush/pivot in the centre of the die block inspect for wear and then as a trial pack with heavy grease try a few runs and observe the difference.

                              I have 5 shapers and my 1940's Alba used to clank very similar to yours the cure for that was a new shop made die block and bush/pin, lately I have noticed my Elliott 10m is starting to "knock" a little so I may have to repeat the same job with that.

                              Paul

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