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  • "Asian" drill press options question

    Hi All,

    First time post as I've come across some new equipment (drum roll.....) Central Machinery drill press #38144. I actually bought this for parts toward making one whole DP from an old head, a Cal-Hawk made in Taiwan, probably turn-of-the-century edition (this one, not last one lol)

    It was given to me having the MT2 arbor spun inside the spindle... don't know more details than that. The problem the previous owner explained was that the chuck was constantly falling out. From the little I know about DP's (first time owned though used) it is critical that the spindle taper and the arbor taper be clean smooth and free of burrs/marks and especially lubricants.

    the owner seemed to know what he was talking about and suggested machining down the arbor so that it could insert further and thus the tang could engage the part of the groove that has not rounded. However, I have since learned through research that the tang does not transmit the torque, so in theory the rounded groove should not make a difference (or at least less than having pristine surfaces).

    I've included a link of pics to show where I'm at.. sorry they are not great but it's hard to photograph. If I picked up a new good quality arbor and cleaned out the spindle with a brake hone or something, would I be back in business? Or if it's DOA, are all MT2 quill/spindle assemblies more or less the same dimensions? I have searched for a whole assembly for sale but no dice yet. Of course HF has no spare parts for anything and 38144 has been superseded it seems by a newer model (not sure if they will match up but sometimes our local HF will let people swap out for floor model parts).

    Thx for any info!

    https://imgur.com/a/TXvAu

  • #2
    That chuck is shot, not worth trying to fit it. I would suggest buying anew MT 2 taper reamer and ream to clean up the hole.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-New-MT2-...QAAOSwjDZYfb7B

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Genuine...EAAOSwXtRZcreF

    so for around $50.00 you have a new set up. If you go that way, let us know and we can walk you thru reaming the hole.

    Comment


    • #3
      To add to what Richard said, It looks as if the chuck is mounted on a removable arbor, Probably MT2-JT6. If the chuck itself is good enough to be worth keeping, it should be possible to remove the arbor and fit a new one.
      Last edited by Mark Rand; 02-27-2018, 05:07 PM.
      Location- Rugby, Warwickshire. UK

      Comment


      • #4
        I had a chuck that did not want to remain attached to it's arbor - arbor was less scored than the image you attached. I used loctite 272? (Red). Ten years later I went to repurpose the arbor to a bet.ter chuck and forgot about the Loct
        ite and did not heat before pressing off. Damaged the chuck before it was free from the arbor.


        QUOTE=giantsean;1162822]Hi All,

        First time post as I've come across some new equipment (drum roll.....) Central Machinery drill press #38144. I actually bought this for parts toward making one whole DP from an old head, a Cal-Hawk made in Taiwan, probably turn-of-the-century edition (this one, not last one lol)

        It was given to me having the MT2 arbor spun inside the spindle... don't know more details than that. The problem the previous owner explained was that the chuck was constantly falling out. From the little I know about DP's (first time owned though used) it is critical that the spindle taper and the arbor taper be clean smooth and free of burrs/marks and especially lubricants.

        the owner seemed to know what he was talking about and suggested machining down the arbor so that it could insert further and thus the tang could engage the part of the groove that has not rounded. However, I have since learned through research that the tang does not transmit the torque, so in theory the rounded groove should not make a difference (or at least less than having pristine surfaces).

        I've included a link of pics to show where I'm at.. sorry they are not great but it's hard to photograph. If I picked up a new good quality arbor and cleaned out the spindle with a brake hone or something, would I be back in business? Or if it's DOA, are all MT2 quill/spindle assemblies more or less the same dimensions? I have searched for a whole assembly for sale but no dice yet. Of course HF has no spare parts for anything and 38144 has been superseded it seems by a newer model (not sure if they will match up but sometimes our local HF will let people swap out for floor model parts).

        Thx for any info!

        https://imgur.com/a/TXvAu
        [/QUOTE]
        Metro Detroit

        Comment


        • #5
          From the looks of the galling on the arbor it is only making contact for half the length of the arbor. And that is bad right off the bat. The tang isn't supposed to take the torque. That part is right. But to handle the torque without spinning like it clearly has the arbor needs to fit up fully into the quill into a closely matching taper so there's more surface area and thus more friction to hold the arbor.

          When I look at your first picture it's clearly not fitting into the quill far enough All the galling is on the upper half. Now that also tells me that your arbor isn't fitting far enough into the quill. If it were then the tang would act as a torque "safety" to prevent spinning. It's not perfect by any means. But it can do that. But your arbor is clearly not fitting up far enough just as you described.

          So either the arbor is badly made and over size or the quill was rough reamed to remove most of the material but then never final reamed to size or finish ground to size depending on what process they do on these things. Do you have any other MT2 items that you can fit into the drill press quill? That would prove the source of the issue for sure.

          You obviously need a new arbor for the chuck. That much is clear. No saving that one. And if you want to save the drill press I'd say you need a reamer as already suggested and carefully ream it to at least clean up the taper in the quill. And if the quill is actually undersize to ream it open until the tangs on the arbors fit into that slot just far enough that you can still insert the end of the wedge for knocking the arbors loose.
          Chilliwack BC, Canada

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by giantsean View Post
            Hi All,

            First time post as I've come across some new equipment (drum roll.....) Central Machinery drill press #38144. I actually bought this for parts toward making one whole DP from an old head, a Cal-Hawk made in Taiwan, probably turn-of-the-century edition (this one, not last one lol)

            It was given to me having the MT2 arbor spun inside the spindle... don't know more details than that. The problem the previous owner explained was that the chuck was constantly falling out. From the little I know about DP's (first time owned though used) it is critical that the spindle taper and the arbor taper be clean smooth and free of burrs/marks and especially lubricants.

            the owner seemed to know what he was talking about and suggested machining down the arbor so that it could insert further and thus the tang could engage the part of the groove that has not rounded. However, I have since learned through research that the tang does not transmit the torque, so in theory the rounded groove should not make a difference (or at least less than having pristine surfaces).

            I've included a link of pics to show where I'm at.. sorry they are not great but it's hard to photograph. If I picked up a new good quality arbor and cleaned out the spindle with a brake hone or something, would I be back in business? Or if it's DOA, are all MT2 quill/spindle assemblies more or less the same dimensions? I have searched for a whole assembly for sale but no dice yet. Of course HF has no spare parts for anything and 38144 has been superseded it seems by a newer model (not sure if they will match up but sometimes our local HF will let people swap out for floor model parts).

            Thx for any info!

            https://imgur.com/a/TXvAu
            Before you get too carried away with taking parts off that drill press, use it for a bit. I have one similar and it works pretty well as a drill press. If you need more precision or need to drill holes beyond its capacity, there are probably better ways to do that. Mine is capable of drilling a 1" hole in mild steel.

            Comment


            • #7
              Buy the reamer and fix the drill then sell me the reamer at a discount. I have to clean up some tapers as well.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by RMinMN View Post
                Before you get too carried away with taking parts off that drill press, use it for a bit. I have one similar and it works pretty well as a drill press. If you need more precision or need to drill holes beyond its capacity, there are probably better ways to do that. Mine is capable of drilling a 1" hole in mild steel.
                Thanks everyone... some great responses, and sounds like I'm already on the right track.

                To be fully clear, the reason I bought the HF cheap for parts was just that, for parts to make one good Cal-Hawk benchtop model. However I kind of like the floor model and the HF unit is much newer and also more capable, so if the spindle/arbor is the only issue then it might be worth trying a fix, and I can part out my Cal-Hawk.

                I definitely think replacing the arbor/chuck is the way to go, mostly as it's a stock HF part and may not be worth the time to tune up vs. the small expense of replacement.

                As to the question of standardization of the quill/spindle assembly (say rather than ream it out, I try to buy a spindle), are they commonly interchangeable between makes and models, or do they vary by brand or even similar models?

                Thx again!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by 1-800miner View Post
                  Buy the reamer and fix the drill then sell me the reamer at a discount. I have to clean up some tapers as well.
                  Lol that's an idea too. That Ebay price is deceptive... 3.99 for the slow boat from China shipping in May. My wife is from China and her mom is visiting in May so if I want to wait that long I can have her hand deliver to me :P

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I believe you have the cheapest options already. I looked in the Grizzly catalogue, 12.95 for the MT2 -JT6 arbor and a rough and finish taper reamer are 39.96 and 44.95. In my www.cdcotools.com catalogue a MT2 arbor is $5.00. So for $16.00 and shipping cant compare to the cost of a spindle and fiddling is not a good idea. Cross manufacturing parts don't always work.
                    DBQ49er

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I also loc-tited a chuck in a cheap and cheerful asian POS.

                      The socket was not smooth, it was rough turned and never ground, although it was at the right size. Only held with loc-tite. I used blue, and did not slather it, but never have pulled it out, I have a real DP and banished the other to use out in the shed.

                      Take a look and see if the socket is rough turned or ground to a good finish.

                      BTW..... the arbor is saveable with a burr file, or a regular file if you just use it to knock down the stuff that sticks up (light touch, no pressure down).
                      CNC machines only go through the motions.

                      Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                      Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                      Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                      I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                      Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Exactly as JT says; if this is a cheap machine for general use, 99% of the time you'd be using it with a 1/2" chuck anyway. Clean the worst of the burrs off the taper, clean it and the socket, and Loctite the whole lot together.

                        Runout because of the burrs? Hell, it might turn out better than new! Try it first both ways around without Loctite, see which runs truer. Then Loctite it all together in that position.

                        I'd think you'll struggle to find a replacement spindle for the machine, if you do want to keep the 2MT socket.

                        My first drill press came with a 1/2" male thread on the spindle, no taper socket at all. It did me fine for years.

                        Ian
                        All of the gear, no idea...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yes, as everyone says, you need to buy/beg/borrow a 2MT socket reamer. I'd go for a finishing one, you don't need the roughing one because the taper is already formed. A fairly light cleaning out is all that should be needed, just to get the raised bits off.
                          Having said that, looking at the taper shank, I've a nasty feeling that the shank taper and the socket taper didn't match, there seems to be a lot
                          more galling towards the small end. I think I'd invest on a new, reasonable quality chuck, lightly ream the bore, then check the fit of the taper using marking blue. There should be contact over the whole length of the taper. Badly fitting taper may be the reason why the previous owner reported that the chuck kept falling out.
                          I know this subject of tangs has been discussed many, many times, but I still think that drill/chuck manufacturers knew what they were doing, and made them that way for a reason. After all, it would have been cheaper for both parties not to create a tang. Yes, the drive should be via the taper, but the tang is a safety device in my eyes. If the taper starts to slip, the tang takes up the drive, and prevents spin, hence prevents the damage you are now trying to correct.
                          I don't think I'd resort to loctite, if you manage to get on with this drill, sooner or later you'll want to use a drill or reamer which has a taper shank itself, and need to get the chuck out again.
                          'It may not always be the best policy to do what is best technically, but those responsible for policy can never form a right judgement without knowledge of what is right technically' - 'Dutch' Kindelberger

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Loctite is the cheap way to fix it fast. You could lap the chuck to the taper adapter. If you have to buy a new chuck save money and get a 1/2" chuck. Most drillpress tooling has a 1/2" shank anyway. I have a drillpress that was being scrapped because the spindle broke at the top of the morse taper where the slot is. There was very little metal left after the slot was milled. Anyway I welded a new end on the broken shaft, machined it true, cut a thread on the end for the chuck along with wrench flats, and it has been good. Not saying you should go this far, but my chuck hasn't fallen off and I don't expect it to ever. I also have made a tool that fits over the chuck body and has three pins that fit into the chuck key holes that I can use to remove screw on chucks. I have a number of chucks that are all the same size so having this tool is more than a one time use tool.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi,

                              I have a similar HF Central Machinery drill press. It doesn't have the cache that a nice Walker-Turner or Clausing has, but it will shoot holes into steel well enough. I would also recommend getting a finish reamer to clean up the spindle a bit, a new MT#2 arbor and fit them up. I consider the arbors to be cheap disposable wear items and not worth repairing.

                              Loctite is also viable for the frugal among us, but I'm not really fond of the idea myself.
                              If you think you understand what is going on, you haven't been paying attention.

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