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"Asian" drill press options question

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  • dalee100
    replied
    Hi,

    Excellent! You have now rebuilt your first machine tool!

    For an inexpensive machine, it should give you decent service. I have no complaints about mine and I use it quite a bit in steel up to 1" sized holes.

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  • giantsean
    replied
    So finally laid everything out and got to work. Since the grooves seemed (by finger feel at least) to be beyond simply refinishing - but mostly because I wanted to play around w/ it) I got the cutting reamer up in there pretty good to get past the part where it rounded. Suffice to say it worked better than expected as I found myself a good 1/8-1/4" above my start point. I don't have a big enough tap wrench so I used a stubby ratchet and a 12pt socket, but kept force mostly in the middle. Found I could give a little nudge and it cut up pretty well. Ran the finishing reamer up to clean it up. It still has some internal groove below the surface of the face but I guess nothing I can do about that. Gave it a flush out w/ oil and cleaned the hole w/ acetone, reassembled w/ the new arbor and chuck, and lo and behold it has not fallen out yet.

    I tried the prussian blue but I can't say that I found anything too signifcant. There were definitely spots where it wasn't contacting but it looked like it transferred to most of the surface area (hard to see in such a little hole). But again, hasn't fallen out yet I don't have a dial indicator but it seemed to drill pretty straight, into wood at least. I am not building space shuttles so I should be fine

    Thanks for all the advice! I'll report back if I have a significant failure... but for now ~$50 invested in a $200+ DP looks like money well spent!

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  • BCRider
    replied
    From the two times that I've used an MT2 reamer you're going to find that it does not take all that much axial pressure to establish a good cutting action. So go light or it'll cut in too deep and lock on you. And do it by hand, not under power or bad things will happen.

    The reamer will do a lot to self center itself but it's still good to try as best you can to equalize the pressure on the arms of the tap wrench used to turn it in.

    And just in case it needs reinforcing do NOT turn the reamer backwards... ever.... not even a little. Even as you enter and exit the cut keep it turning forwards while engaging and especially while with drawing it. And for the withdrawal ease up a little at a time so the chip load reduces and the last half turn or so is done with almost no pressure and almost no cutting. That will be your "polishing" of the surface.

    When I tested some MT3 tool holders for my old mill/drill I ran a couple of lines of felt marker along the taper and then put it lightly into the socket and turned it a little back and forth. This scuffed the marker away on the taper so I could see where the pressure contact points occurred. Doing the same thing for this sort of use might be easier to do and clean up than using the transfer blue considering the small size of an MT2 socket.
    Last edited by BCRider; 03-05-2018, 04:21 PM.

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  • giantsean
    replied
    Originally posted by Richard P Wilson View Post
    If you don't want to invest in a new chuck, or at least a new arbour, then polish out the raised burrs with fine emery while its running in the lathe. Read the recent thread on safety before getting your fingers in this.

    Use the finish reamer, well oiled, just push it up inside the taper socket, and rotate gently with a tap wrench. Spindle stationary, not under power. You should only need a couple of turns to get rid of the raised metal. Do not turn in reverse, thats a sure way to dull the reamer. Then coat the arbour lightly with blue (its Stuart's Micrometer Blue in the UK, don't know what its called in the US), and see if it contacts over the whole length.
    Report back when you get that far!
    thanks! I ended up sourcing a new chuck/arbor hence why I left that part out (I figure insertion is a no-brainer). The quill is out at the moment so I assume no need to disassemble further if I could have just done it with it installed. I'll take care and try to keep gunk out though.

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  • Richard P Wilson
    replied
    If you don't want to invest in a new chuck, or at least a new arbour, then polish out the raised burrs with fine emery while its running in the lathe. Read the recent thread on safety before getting your fingers in this.

    Use the finish reamer, well oiled, just push it up inside the taper socket, and rotate gently with a tap wrench. Spindle stationary, not under power. You should only need a couple of turns to get rid of the raised metal. Do not turn in reverse, thats a sure way to dull the reamer. Then coat the arbour lightly with blue (its Stuart's Micrometer Blue in the UK, don't know what its called in the US), and see if it contacts over the whole length.
    Report back when you get that far!

    Leave a comment:


  • giantsean
    replied
    So I got the reamer set off of amazon for 28 bucks (looks like the same Chinese set but better than waiting for April lol).

    So as to how to actually use these things... I have felt up inside the spindle and it is not too too bad. However the keyway for the tang is definitely rounded. Is it worth running the rough reamer up there to cut the taper higher, or will that thin it out too much at the bottom? If the keyway is not a big deal (I know it is not used to drive the shaft) then I can just use the finisher.

    Either way, is it as simple as getting some thread cutting oil and turning the reamer? I have seen a few how-do videos and it seems no harder than that. Some say to do a half turn the in reverse to polish it out.

    Finally, do I need to bang out the spindle from the quill before doing anything? I worry a bit about getting metal shavings and slurry inside bearings, but I am not sure how much gunk gets generated. I have only seen videos of guys doing it on lathes so any info appreciated

    Leave a comment:


  • dalee100
    replied
    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
    The whole drill press is likely not worth saving.... Loctite works. The arbor isn't worth it, but it can be a pain to remove, and that changes what you may want to do.
    Hi,

    Yeah, don't know the condition of the rest of the machine. But it is an OK machine if the spindle bearings aren't ruined also. As I said, no cache, but it will shoot holes in steel if needed. Knocking out the arbor isn't particularly difficult. I've had to replace many damaged ones over the years. Operators can be quite hard on them, with dropping and banging them around.

    Now that you mention it Alistair, I too have been told the same thing by oldtimers. Cigarette papers are the cause and cure of many shop problems.............

    I have also simply opened the jaws up to below the chuck face and applied a sharp rap or two, (firmly - not hammer-of-god hits), with a hammer also. Whilst waiting for a new arbor to arrive in the mail.

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  • Alistair Hosie
    replied
    I would never use Loctite but as a last resort I have heard that the old timers smoothed by hand with fine emery cloth then applied a couple of cigarette papers not overlapping and then pressed it down no mallets or hammers required. It might still work and would be worth a final try. Al

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  • J Tiers
    replied
    Originally posted by dalee100 View Post
    Hi,

    ... I consider the arbors to be cheap disposable wear items and not worth repairing.

    Loctite is also viable for the frugal among us, but I'm not really fond of the idea myself.
    The whole drill press is likely not worth saving.... Loctite works. The arbor isn't worth it, but it can be a pain to remove, and that changes what you may want to do.

    Leave a comment:


  • dalee100
    replied
    Hi,

    I have a similar HF Central Machinery drill press. It doesn't have the cache that a nice Walker-Turner or Clausing has, but it will shoot holes into steel well enough. I would also recommend getting a finish reamer to clean up the spindle a bit, a new MT#2 arbor and fit them up. I consider the arbors to be cheap disposable wear items and not worth repairing.

    Loctite is also viable for the frugal among us, but I'm not really fond of the idea myself.

    Leave a comment:


  • wdtom44
    replied
    Loctite is the cheap way to fix it fast. You could lap the chuck to the taper adapter. If you have to buy a new chuck save money and get a 1/2" chuck. Most drillpress tooling has a 1/2" shank anyway. I have a drillpress that was being scrapped because the spindle broke at the top of the morse taper where the slot is. There was very little metal left after the slot was milled. Anyway I welded a new end on the broken shaft, machined it true, cut a thread on the end for the chuck along with wrench flats, and it has been good. Not saying you should go this far, but my chuck hasn't fallen off and I don't expect it to ever. I also have made a tool that fits over the chuck body and has three pins that fit into the chuck key holes that I can use to remove screw on chucks. I have a number of chucks that are all the same size so having this tool is more than a one time use tool.

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  • Richard P Wilson
    replied
    Yes, as everyone says, you need to buy/beg/borrow a 2MT socket reamer. I'd go for a finishing one, you don't need the roughing one because the taper is already formed. A fairly light cleaning out is all that should be needed, just to get the raised bits off.
    Having said that, looking at the taper shank, I've a nasty feeling that the shank taper and the socket taper didn't match, there seems to be a lot
    more galling towards the small end. I think I'd invest on a new, reasonable quality chuck, lightly ream the bore, then check the fit of the taper using marking blue. There should be contact over the whole length of the taper. Badly fitting taper may be the reason why the previous owner reported that the chuck kept falling out.
    I know this subject of tangs has been discussed many, many times, but I still think that drill/chuck manufacturers knew what they were doing, and made them that way for a reason. After all, it would have been cheaper for both parties not to create a tang. Yes, the drive should be via the taper, but the tang is a safety device in my eyes. If the taper starts to slip, the tang takes up the drive, and prevents spin, hence prevents the damage you are now trying to correct.
    I don't think I'd resort to loctite, if you manage to get on with this drill, sooner or later you'll want to use a drill or reamer which has a taper shank itself, and need to get the chuck out again.

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  • Ian B
    replied
    Exactly as JT says; if this is a cheap machine for general use, 99% of the time you'd be using it with a 1/2" chuck anyway. Clean the worst of the burrs off the taper, clean it and the socket, and Loctite the whole lot together.

    Runout because of the burrs? Hell, it might turn out better than new! Try it first both ways around without Loctite, see which runs truer. Then Loctite it all together in that position.

    I'd think you'll struggle to find a replacement spindle for the machine, if you do want to keep the 2MT socket.

    My first drill press came with a 1/2" male thread on the spindle, no taper socket at all. It did me fine for years.

    Ian

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  • J Tiers
    replied
    I also loc-tited a chuck in a cheap and cheerful asian POS.

    The socket was not smooth, it was rough turned and never ground, although it was at the right size. Only held with loc-tite. I used blue, and did not slather it, but never have pulled it out, I have a real DP and banished the other to use out in the shed.

    Take a look and see if the socket is rough turned or ground to a good finish.

    BTW..... the arbor is saveable with a burr file, or a regular file if you just use it to knock down the stuff that sticks up (light touch, no pressure down).

    Leave a comment:


  • dbq49er
    replied
    I believe you have the cheapest options already. I looked in the Grizzly catalogue, 12.95 for the MT2 -JT6 arbor and a rough and finish taper reamer are 39.96 and 44.95. In my www.cdcotools.com catalogue a MT2 arbor is $5.00. So for $16.00 and shipping cant compare to the cost of a spindle and fiddling is not a good idea. Cross manufacturing parts don't always work.
    DBQ49er

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