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  • #16
    I much prefer digital calipers to dial and either one to Verniers.I have seen several old American machinists that used Verniers,but even they often used dial calipers due to ease of operation/speed.
    I just need one more tool,just one!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post
      People ought to be embarrassed at being so stubborn, its a character flaw imo. You can get it anywhere I suppose, but personally I think its a bit of European thing, 'our ways is the best'. imo comes from so many distinct and prideful cultures crammed so close together. Then again that's going against my own philosophy, don't generalize and take 'em as the come. I should stick to it more stubbornly.
      Mcgyver - well said! Unfortunately the same things you said about Europe apply to us here as you know all to well. We are the only industrialized country still using inches, pounds and gallons. Could be to many of us have some of that stubborn Euro-blood in us. Have a nice day.

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      • #18
        Digital have messed me up.

        Get the zero set off, and it gets to be a problem pretty fast.

        As for the 29 degree, the video says it.... biased to one side is good. Problem is that if the threading tool starts pushing the carriage, which can happen with the sall lightweight carriages on smaller machines, then you get a drunk thread. The biasing just makes sure the leadscrew is pushing, and the tool is not "wandering around in the slop range", which it can do if the tool pushes the carriage.
        Last edited by J Tiers; 03-15-2018, 07:38 PM.
        CNC machines only go through the motions

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        • #19
          I just use lay down inserts and the cross slide for threading - i.e. straight in. But.. I have the rigidity to do that. Oh, my compound stays at 30 (or 60 depending on how you view it) just because I like it that way!

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          • #20
            Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
            I use the dial type, which is actually NOT a dial, but a combined dial and scale..... the dial reads the 0.01 and 0.001 decimal places, the scale reads the inches and 1/10 inches (or the metric equivalents).

            Primarily because the dial I find easier to read, and actual vernier calipers are more expensive here, likely due to less use.... chicken and egg.

            The topslide issue is simply due to threading.

            If you look at an old-time model-maker's lathe in pictures, you will see, in the US, the topslide parallel to the bed. Probably because that way you get calibrated travel. We now tend to use micrometer carriage stops, or DROs. So we can use carriage travel. And most US lathes have hand travel, as opposed to clamped-down slide assemblies. (so do myford, boxford, etc, of course)

            I do not think there is much of any change in rigidity with position. Possibly it is more rigid when the topslide has a tilting force along its ways, as opposed to across, but it is likely to be minor.
            All the imperial dial calipers i've seen work like that.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
              I am in the US and I have Vernier, dial, and digital calipers. And I use them all, but must admit to using the digital ones most.

              Each type has it's own advantages and I take advantage of those when I need to. Digitals are fast. Vernier is very trustworthy. And dials can read to finer increments, perhaps 0.0002" or so.

              So I must be a man of the world.
              Dial and digital is pushing against a workpiece with a thumb roller or similar. Vernier with the fine adjustment feature is normally a two hand operation (well, one hand and a thumb and forefinger) and IMO gives you a better feel with measuring OD and ID features, and again, IMHO, is the most accurate.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Baz View Post
                Dial callipers are more expensive so were so not so affordable in the UK. Much less likely to be stocked by the ME suppliers too.
                I was under this impression too, until i read the Long Island Indicator website. Apparently not as a quality vernier needs many more accurate graduations/engraving, and hence is more expensive to manufacture.
                Learn summat knew every day....

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post
                  I keep the compound on a shelf, with a big scraped piece of cast iron with T slots in its place

                  Verniers are for a young mans eyes. I keep some in larger sizes for the infrequent use they see, but recently lucked out on a Mit 24" digital so even they will go. I like dials, and have a few. Their (slight) advantage is that's its analogue - when roughing or picking stock the approximately position of the needle even at an angle is sometimes easier than reading numerals. Having said, that 98% of the time I reach for the Mit digital caliper
                  Your big lump of iron is commonly referred to as a Gibralter toolpost (Rock of Gibralter...)...
                  Concur - good eyesight is a recquisite of reading a vernier caliper.
                  Hence i've been looking at dial calipers, as my eyesight is not what it once was.
                  Also, bar the Mitutoyo calipers, everything US or UK brand name wise, does not seem what it once was. Country of actual manufacture, nor the quality.
                  Last edited by thaiguzzi; 03-16-2018, 01:53 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Juergenwt View Post
                    The "American" way of cutting a thread by setting the compound at 29 1/2° from perpendicular is almost unknown in Europe, in particular Germany. When I first explained the advantages of cutting a thread by using the American way in a German technical forum - I ran into a wall of NO WAY. We have always done it by feeding straight in and moving the compound (parallel) slightly forward and back.
                    Took a while until some people tried it - the American way - and were surprised how easy it was. Some people you could never convince. We have always done it the "straight in" way. Period.
                    Same thing about using a threading dial. Even if the lathe has a metric threading dial. You NEVER open the split nut until the thread is finished. The bad part about this is you will have a hard time when cutting against a shoulder.
                    There is a way to use a inch threading dial when cutting metric thread on a inch based lathe. After you change your gears or switch your lathe to metric you can engage your your inch threading dial on a certain number. Let's say "1". With the split nut closed and the dial on number 1 you cut right up to the shoulder, disengage the split nut. Your compound will stop but your dial will start turning. Pull out, stop and reverse your lathe. the dial will reverse and when the number "1" or your mark comes up again than engage the split nut. Now you are back in the same place as before.
                    Ps.: If your dial does not match up with a number than you can make a mark on the dial and use that as a reference point.
                    Before metric became the norm in the UK, everybody was taught to swing the compound to half the thread angle, but not only half of 60, but half of 55 as well, because we were still threading BSW and BSF...
                    I still cut all threads with the compound (top slide) moved over, inc metric, just because it's what i'm used to...

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by thaiguzzi View Post
                      Dial and digital is pushing against a workpiece with a thumb roller or similar. Vernier with the fine adjustment feature is normally a two hand operation (well, one hand and a thumb and forefinger) and IMO gives you a better feel with measuring OD and ID features, and again, IMHO, is the most accurate.
                      Dial and digital is ONLY like that if one is silly enough to USE the roller. One has the option to use two hands and get an accurate reading, in case that is important.......
                      CNC machines only go through the motions

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                      • #26
                        I suppose that next time I cut an acme thread, the compound should be swung 14 degrees. Unfortunately, the next acme to be cut is an internal thread, so I won't get the practice.

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                        • #27
                          For internal thread the same rule applies. 29° for 60° thread, 13° for acme (29°) and 14° for trapezoidal (30°) thread.
                          Last edited by Juergenwt; 03-16-2018, 11:36 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Last time I looked, acme was 29 degrees.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by old mart View Post
                              Last time I looked, acme was 29 degrees.
                              Total it is 29, but half angle is not. The compound gets set to the half angle, or a bit less
                              CNC machines only go through the motions

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                                Dial and digital is ONLY like that if one is silly enough to USE the roller. One has the option to use two hands and get an accurate reading, in case that is important.......
                                The roller actually works better (once you learn to use it) because it has a consistent slip much as a thimble on a micrometer. It makes your measurements more repeatable.


                                Beginners tend to tighten micrometers too much and do the same with calipers. The result is often readings that change by quite a bit as they compress the material or mash and dent the micro grooves that are sometimes left from turning. When I first started machining I'd take several measurements until I had the same reading several times in a row. That's not the way to do it. You don't slam the jaws closed nor do you squeeze them tight.

                                If you have rollers, get used to using it to gently but firmly close the jaws the same amount every time. Then you will get consistent zero and consistent readings.

                                Dan
                                At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

                                Location: SF East Bay.

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