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OT and nicely controversial....Uber fatal self driving car crash

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  • Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
    Better, not perfect. And presumably fishing for more details to isolate and attack, since the basic concept is pretty obvious to any thinking person.
    To summarize, you think people are at a disadvantage because of specialization based on technology. That's a fair interpretation, right?

    Following that rational, you should be learning to farm instead of working in an industry that depends on technology.

    But the assertion may be flawed. I'm still waiting to see where the FALL OF ROME is tied to autonomous vehicles. That was an interesting assertion too.

    Throughout civilized history, once we got past the hunter/gatherer stage society has depended on specialization. Jim Potter is descended from someone who gave up farming to learn to make pottery which was of value to the farmers. It had such value that he was able to live on that barter. Joe Fisher is descended from someone who took to the sea to catch more fish than he could eat. He traded fish for jars made by the potter so that it could be salted and preserved. Pete Tinker is descended from a guy who learned to work metal, and accumulated the tools needed to do it. He traded pots and pans and knives to others for their wares. In each case, the specialization allowed people to make more advanced products and tools. There was one village blacksmith because of the special skill, strength and tools required to do the job, and the job needed to be done infrequently enough that most people would never become proficient.

    You can see where this is going. For the past few millennium the majority of mankind has bettered itself by specializing. If everyone has to grow their own food and make their own clothes and pots and pans we'd all have crude implements with no spare time to learn or pass on what we learned. Specialization has gotten us to where we are today. It's not a result of laziness. It's not a cause of laziness. It's how we progressed to where we are today.

    If we have a major blight that destroys our ability to feed the population, the fault can't be laid on specialization. If every one of the 7 billion people on the earth today knew how to farm, most still would starve in a blight. We long ago passed the point where the old ways would produce enough food to feed everyone. But again that has nothing to do with specialization, except that we have scientists who made a wheat hybrid that would feed twice as many people as the native grains.

    So to sum it up, the base assertion is not really valid. Specialization does not make people dumber or lazier. On the contrary, it allows people to create things that a subsistence farmer could never create.

    At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

    Location: SF East Bay.


    • In response to : "Can you drive for 8 hours straight without breaking a single law or rule? Be honest this time. Be a man and fess up. Can you obey every law, every rule during 8 hours of driving?" Which was in response to "Jthere are people who can and do make a typical vehicle appear to be brilliant, and can and will out-do the very best example of SDV's for many decades to come"

      Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
      Does that ability matter? Seriously?

      It is not obeying that matters. It is arriving safely, without having endangered yourself or anyone else in the process. Strict obedience is actually not important, and may be a hazard.

      I know someone who once got a ticket for obeying the speed limit on the highway from Louisville to Bardstown in Kentucky. Traffic was generally going at 80mph in a 60 mph zone, and the ticket was for impeding traffic. The ticketing officer recognized the difference between obedience to one law and obedience to another. And that obedience to one meant disobedience to another in the case mentioned. He picked the more important one to enforce, because that one had more to do with safety in the circumstances. Nobody could obey both at once.
      Last point first; Yes, all the people doing 80 MPH could obey both at once by slowing to the speed limit.

      First point last. Yes, it does matter. Our traffic system works because it is, by and large, predictable. When you approach a car with his turn signal on you drive in front of him with the assurance that he will not suddenly drive straight ahead. When you approach a green traffic signal you assume that no one will run the red light and crash into to at full speed. When you start to merge onto a road, you assume that the approaching traffic is at or below the speed limit even when it's too far away to accurately assess the speed.

      People breaking the law is a major cause of accidents. That's a place where the GOOD autonomous vehicles really shine. Once they are programmed to behave properly in a certain situation, they do it every time. They don't get lazy and roll through a stop sign. They don't get frustrated and force their way into traffic. They don't drive 45 in a 25 just because they are late. They don't back up without looking because they have a sore neck.

      If you really know a person who is busted for 60 I'd be really surprised. I've never met anyone who got one of those. After all, the spectacle of giving a car a ticket will slow everyone down right quick, so if disrupting speeders is a bad thing, you don't pull over a the legal one. Besides, a highway patrol doing the speed limit always slows the speeders. I've seen that a thousand times.

      At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

      Location: SF East Bay.


      • The people WERE driving 80 mph. THAT WAS ENVIRONMENTAL We are NOT discussing them, they are a "given".

        The POINT was that being the sole "obedient" one in that environment was actually a hazard. You could not, in that environment, obey all the traffic laws at once.

        Would it help your understanding if I told you that I was a passenger in the car at the time?

        No, I do not agree with your boiled-down statement. And, before you ask, I am not interested in supplying an alternate one "on demand". I have made the point clear enough.
        Last edited by J Tiers; 04-05-2018, 08:25 AM.
        CNC machines only go through the motions


        • Originally posted by danlb View Post
          AK, are you really being so crass as to say that anyone that needs help is "the dumb one"?

          If you think that being able to drive makes you a smart person, you are sadly mistaken. If driving mad you smart, you would not be so ignorant about so many things. You might also be able to type a whole post without making mistakes. Did you know that we have spell checkers built into our computers to help cover up the ineptitude of people who don't understand grammar and can't spell?

          But maybe that's the problem. You've used a computer so much that you find it hard to make a coherent argument because it's been doing the work for you.

          I've known many absolute imbeciles who lived for their cars. Every one of them figured that they were superb drivers. Every one had tales of how they pulled off some miraculous maneuver that prevented or minimized an accident. Every one was a terrible driver. One died behind the wheel. One has more steel in his shoulder than was left of his motorcycle after the accident. Not sure about the others.

          If A then B. If you can't see the benefit to getting the bad drivers off the road, then you are dense. If you are dense, you probably won't see the benefit to getting bad drivers off the road. Hmmm. Some times it's true that "if b then a".
          First off - before you go picking on someones spelling try to get your own act together a little, getting sick and tired of some "dim bulb" trying to pretend that it's actually some kind of a guide to intelligence whilst in the same post not knowing how to spell "made" --- actually the audacity of it all is it's in the same paragraph lol Nice, get it together Dan your showing who you really are,

          there - now that we've got that out of the way, yeah blah blah blah and iv known some college professors that are absolute twits --- what's your point?
          conventional cars are not "bad or good" so referring to them as "dumb cars" does not make any sense at all - it's the people who drive them that makes all the difference in the world and yeah regardless of their backgrounds or whatever if they are good then it should never be threatened, never, to some really good drivers the car is an extension of themselves and they know it so well they can make it go anywhere and do anything and take it on the ragged edge of what the vehicle itself is capable of --- and hate to break it to you, autonomous vehicles are light years behind that statement... NO contest...

          if someones piss poor they should be yanked off the road, I stated before that should be a great final incentive - get your act together and take it seriously or lose the privilege, im fine with that be it whether it just gets them off the road or gives them a safe alternative...

          But your talk of eventual total conversion is dangerous - your missing major links in all the pitfalls - Like i stated before we already have a major disconnect in this nation let alone the fattest people on the planet partially due to that fact ---- everyone just wanting to live their life through a little screen and now you want to make it even worse, it's a sickening mindset that effects everything,
          How many tens of millions shell-out from heart disease after this goes totally into effect ? what's next a conveyor belt to move your sloth/ass too and from your autonomous vehicle? there's ones that already open the door for your pathetic ass - want to be scooped up and put in and out of it too?

          maybe they can make a pill for you so that you secrete slime like a slug, would make shoeing you in and out allot easier would it not? forget the pill probably just happen naturally,
          life is so hard after all - can't believe there's people wanting us to drive our own cars let alone get in and out of them - woe is me, im such a victim, i don't want to have to think about important decisions it takes too much effort,

          Meanwhile where's all the individuality going to go? want to break it to Sid that he can't drive his hot-rod on the street anymore? (good luck with that)

          look out the window and see other slugs in the same looking POS autonomous vehicles with blank stares on their faces looking back at you with nothing to do either???

          what about the content of this site and all that the creative type have added to it - like Sids mods or even some of my unique high performance mods or when gas hit 4 bucks a gallon and I created my 52MPG toyota tercel that was only rated at 33?

          like i stated before Dan - you can't see the forest for the tree's - you got your head buried so deep in this and think technology is the answer to everything, your lost,
          it's not and in fact in this particular topic it's the reason why were having more and more trouble - as i stated distracted driving is responsible for more accidents and deaths than drunk driving is now, dead people are after all dead people and we need to go after that with the same tenacity, that's something that could be spun around on a dime if we wanted, really was where the effort was heading and we were making great ground but now were creating other systems to cover for that so people can get even further away from what's important... their now more distracted than ever before!

          We need to make people better at being people, not worse, You will make them far worse in the long haul and Im absolutely positive of that statement, that does not take a PhD, that's just common sense analyzing and paying attention to the world around you...
          as far as my spelling yeah it sucks, but I do pretty good for a kid who slept through english class so deal with it, but since you put so much value on it what's your excuse?
          Last edited by A.K. Boomer; 04-05-2018, 11:29 AM.


          • Well, since Jerry and Boomer have fallen to the point where they are throwing insults in nearly every post and making things up that have nothing to do with the thread, I'm going to back out.

            I know that Boomer is a car mechanic, and of course he's afraid of losing his job. It's just a shame that he's so ignorant about the subject. Jerry's just a contrarian. He needs no reason to pipe up on a thread and argue about it. That's OK, when on topic. When he brings in the downfall of Rome as a reason to ban a technology... that's just silly.

            You guys go on fighting over it. Enjoy the irony that you guys have spent hundreds of hours arguing on this thread about how technology is making people fat and lazy.
            At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

            Location: SF East Bay.


            • Oh yeah im paranoid about losing my job lol like this stuff wont have a drivetrain and need to be worked on lol

              magic carpet ride anyone???

              you've been tossing around insults pretty freely too, so don't get all butt hurt when people call you out on stuff,

              also, just to get something clear --- were not afraid of the "unknown" that's hilarious to me, this is not "unknown" and in fact it's been going on at many level for quite sometime and is easy for most to see, don't instill your own ignorance of the matter onto everyone else just because you lack the insight/foresight not only for the future but do not even know how to decipher what were up against at the present...


              • Originally posted by lakeside53 View Post
                I like this thread. Keeps all the argumentatives out of the others. Keep it going for another 100 pages!
                Just don't try to interject any comments because it is a private argument.


                THINK HARDER




                • Does this still work? (Compliments of kimfab)


                  • Someone is dieing for an SDV, because with it, he thinks his life, lifestyle, living arrangement, independence, etc., etc. isn't going to change if...(and when) his health and abilities decline.


                    • Originally posted by reggie_obe View Post
                      Someone is dieing for an SDV, because with it, he thinks his life, lifestyle, living arrangement, independence, etc., etc. isn't going to change if...(and when) his health and abilities decline.
                      All's I know is someones ideals of spelling got changed almost in an instant - almost like a switch got flipped or something as he's not bringing it up anymore lol have to admit it's a nice change! lol