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Water Soluble Cutting Fluids

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  • epicfail48
    replied
    Originally posted by CCWKen View Post
    Haven't had a chance to try it on steel yet. I liked it enough to buy another "Scratch & Dent" bottle off Amazon. Can't beat the price. The only thing wrong about the first one was a dent near the top surface. Like what you'd see if the case was on it's side for a long time and this bottle was on the bottom. It was full and still had the seal intact. No leaking either. So I bought another. Sorry but I think I got the last one.
    Yeah, price is the only sticking point for me. Think the new ones were $14 a bottle when i checked, not horrible of course, but still enough to leave me a little leery. Still thouhg, good to hear someones had good luck with it. Probably end up picking up a bottle, if nothing else having something a little cleaner for aluminium than wd40 would be nice

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  • Ed ke6bnl
    replied
    I use a synthetic water soluable solution that I do not believe it works as good as sulfur oil or wd40 for aluminum BUT the big advantage I see at times is the part stays super cool and does not grow when you are ready to measure.

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  • CCWKen
    replied
    Haven't had a chance to try it on steel yet. I liked it enough to buy another "Scratch & Dent" bottle off Amazon. Can't beat the price. The only thing wrong about the first one was a dent near the top surface. Like what you'd see if the case was on it's side for a long time and this bottle was on the bottom. It was full and still had the seal intact. No leaking either. So I bought another. Sorry but I think I got the last one.

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  • epicfail48
    replied
    Originally posted by CCWKen View Post
    Update on the Tap Magic Aqueous Cutting Fluid: (Water soluble)

    This may be exactly what the OP wants. I tried it on a few drilled and tapped holes and also for fly cutting a piece of aluminum. I like it. It acts like any other Tap Magic. You don't mix it with water--It washes off with water. A damp cloth in my case. I put a few drops on a piece of aluminum and let it dry for two days. It had a grease feel to it and left no mark/stain on the aluminum. I was about to use my usual brake cleaner to take it off but I applied a few drops of water out of my water bottle and rubbed the spot. It immediately turned into what felt like soap--almost slimy. I wiped it off with a damp shop towel.
    That's exactly what I was hoping to find out! Have you tried it on anything other than aluminium by chance? If it does decent in steel I'll be picking up a bottle

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  • Edwin Dirnbeck
    replied
    My experience,useing for 60 years. Works well when fresh.You WONT change or clean it until it starts to foul and stink. On a large machine it is IMPOSIBLE to clean and flush all of the old smelly stuff out of the nooks and crannies. New stuf therefore goes bad quicker.In a home shop,would it freeze?If it is hot outside and you don't have airconditioing ,it will foul quicker. Edwin Dirnbeck

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  • Bob La Londe
    replied
    Originally posted by epicfail48 View Post
    So they actually work like the more traditional oil-based stuff? Proposed use in my case would be manual machines, mostly aluminium and mild or free-machining steels. Im looking for something i can use for both general cutting in milling or turning operations to prevent BUE and improve the quality of cut, as well as tapping, mostly with cutting taps but the ocassional forming tap as well.

    Ive found both tapmatic and CRC have water-soluble formulations, anybody have any experience with either? Before it comes up, yes, i know that cutting oils will work better and that wd40 makes an excellent fluid for cutting aluminium and that i could use carbide tools and cut dry and all the other remarks of that nature. Im specifically looking for a water-soluble cutting fluid, mostly because i hate the cleanup required to get oils off of the parts, tooling and, well, me
    I am sure you have lots of great answers already. I do mostly aluminum, so I thought I could "get by". My first machine said to NOT use water soluble coolants on it. It kinda left me trying things. At one point I was running flood transmission fluid on that machine. My shop always smelled like a roasted transmission, but the aluminum parts came out really really nice.

    When I finally got a machine setup that could run water soluble I tried Kool Mist. It might be ok for very short jobs or maybe for spray mist, but I had aluminum molds coming out of the machine that were yellow to brown depending on how long they were on the machine. No kidding. I tried working with Kool Mist and ran distilled water and they still tried to just blame the water. I was frustrated and they never had an answer. Just excuses or blame shifting.

    Then one day Lloyd Sponenburgh on the CamBam forums mentioned SC520 as his coolant of choice. Its made by Master Chemical and it works great. I use it on everything. When I am machining steel I do up the concentration a bit, but the stuff works and the parts come out looking great. I still use spot cutting oil for tapping, manual machining, and on the lathe, but all my CNC mills have 6-8% SC520 and distilled water. According to Lloyd he just uses RO (or maybe its DI) water. I've been buying water at the store, but I've got a water distiller that's about ready to setup with a demand pump and a secondary pressure tank (with temperature shut off so I don't cook the membrane). Lloyd tells me he just dips some coolant out of his CNC mill tank when he needs to use some on his lathe. My lathe does have a coolant tank, pump, and following coolant nozzle, but I don't use it quite often enough to justify maintaining another coolant tank. Same with my saw. I still just use spot oil on the blade for cutting, although the saw does get more use than the lathe. I've definitely seen water soluble coolant used on steel cutting saws at the local metal yards. I've been using SC520 for several years now.

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  • CCWKen
    replied
    Update on the Tap Magic Aqueous Cutting Fluid: (Water soluble)

    This may be exactly what the OP wants. I tried it on a few drilled and tapped holes and also for fly cutting a piece of aluminum. I like it. It acts like any other Tap Magic. You don't mix it with water--It washes off with water. A damp cloth in my case. I put a few drops on a piece of aluminum and let it dry for two days. It had a grease feel to it and left no mark/stain on the aluminum. I was about to use my usual brake cleaner to take it off but I applied a few drops of water out of my water bottle and rubbed the spot. It immediately turned into what felt like soap--almost slimy. I wiped it off with a damp shop towel.

    Leave a comment:


  • BCRider
    replied
    But that still doesn't help me. But I see where you're going with this. Kurt style vises have fully sealed bases. And that's where the rub comes in.

    My milling vise has an opening down the center between the two ways. And I can't reach in to put anything along the inside of the base. The only Kurt style vise I've got with a full sealed off bottom lives on the shaper for now because the vise I use on the mill is too small for the shaper.

    When doing smaller parts at least half the coolant that runs down the vise goes down through that opening. So it's still not going to do anything worthwhile to just run something around the outside in my case. So for that vise smearing thick oil over the table where the vise will be sitting is still the best way for me.

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  • reggie_obe
    replied
    Originally posted by BCRider View Post
    But I can't apply something like that to the base because it will hold up the vise and there goes my flatness. And I can't get inside to make a dam... plus that would take more time than I would want to use. I position and remove the vise quite often as needed for any job. And what about any regular oils with the putty? So thanks for the suggestion but all in all I think I'll stick to heavy body oil or the water resistant boat trailer grease.
    Does the grease have no thickness, not even the thickness of a single molecule?

    I wasn't suggesting that you bed the vise in it, just a thin smear around the perimeter junction of table and vise. If you mount you vise off center, you may find you have less need to remove it.

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  • BCRider
    replied
    Originally posted by reggie_obe View Post
    Try plumbers putty next time. No stain, comes right off metal surfaces.
    But I can't apply something like that to the base because it will hold up the vise and there goes my flatness. And I can't get inside to make a dam... plus that would take more time than I would want to use. I position and remove the vise quite often as needed for any job. And what about any regular oils with the putty? So thanks for the suggestion but all in all I think I'll stick to heavy body oil or the water resistant boat trailer grease.

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  • reggie_obe
    replied
    Originally posted by BCRider View Post
    I use a water based cutting fluid/coolant from a little dripper bottle too. I try to use it sparingly so it won't mess things up badly. In use it was never a problem with the lathe but I quickly found out that on the mill I need to oil or grease the base of the vise or the water based coolant gets in the joint and causes rusting. I stained my brand new mill that way early on. Boat trailer wheel bearing grease worked well at sealing down the milling vise to avoid the issue but was a PITA to clean away. I've since switched to the heavy way oil from the lathe which I use on the base to table fit and on the jaw slide and that's working well. .
    Try plumbers putty next time. No stain, comes right off metal surfaces.

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  • epicfail48
    replied
    Originally posted by CCWKen View Post
    That looks interesting. First time I've seen that. I just ordered a "scratch and dent" version from Amazon for half price to try out. The Tap Magic I have leaves an oily residue and if left to dry leaves a wax coating. It will also stain the ways black if left on. (Don't ask how I know.) I haven't read the MSDS but imagine it's alcohol and water based.

    Just kidding about the hobby. A lot of us flounder in the hobby, including me.
    No worries, I knew it was a joke!

    I was thinking about doing the same with that cutting fluid, was just wondering if anybody hand some first-hand experience they could share. Don't like going into things sight-unseen afterall

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  • BCRider
    replied
    I use a water based cutting fluid/coolant from a little dripper bottle too. I try to use it sparingly so it won't mess things up badly. In use it was never a problem with the lathe but I quickly found out that on the mill I need to oil or grease the base of the vise or the water based coolant gets in the joint and causes rusting. I stained my brand new mill that way early on. Boat trailer wheel bearing grease worked well at sealing down the milling vise to avoid the issue but was a PITA to clean away. I've since switched to the heavy way oil from the lathe which I use on the base to table fit and on the jaw slide and that's working well. On the rest of the surfaces where the water can evaporate normally corrosion is not an issue. And in fact the residual cutting fluid works well at avoiding rust but washes away easily with mild detergent and hot water.

    The stuff I'm using is made by Synthetic Lubricants Inc and it's their Universal. Even mixing it on the fairly rich side of the mixing ratio I find it is a very frugal to use product. And it is quite effective on both steel and aluminium at preventing material build up on the cutting edges. I've been using it at a fairly rich ratio of 10:1. I mix up a liter at a time and it stays fine in the bottle even for months with no issues. In the 15 years I've had it now I've gone through roughly 1/3 of a gallon. So I probably won't need to buy any more ever. And it's not like I don't use it a lot. I've got squeeze bottles of the stuff at all three main machines and not may things get drilled, milled or turned without a few drops of the fluid being used. More on the drill and mill than the lathe mind you but even there I use a few drops quite frequently.

    I also use the heavy black cutting oil for parting off and for touching on the tip of the center drills. But that's more because the Universal is so watery that it runs away too easily.

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  • old mart
    replied
    I use the soluble oil mix principally when parting off steel and aluminium from the squeezy bottle. If you get some, I do recommend a stronger mix than normal, say 10%. Also, keeping the container of mix in the dark when not in use would slow the growth of nasty smelly things.

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  • CCWKen
    replied
    That looks interesting. First time I've seen that. I just ordered a "scratch and dent" version from Amazon for half price to try out. The Tap Magic I have leaves an oily residue and if left to dry leaves a wax coating. It will also stain the ways black if left on. (Don't ask how I know.) I haven't read the MSDS but imagine it's alcohol and water based.

    Just kidding about the hobby. A lot of us flounder in the hobby, including me.

    Leave a comment:

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