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  • Black Forest
    replied
    Originally posted by Willy View Post
    So this means I can count on your vote?
    Willy for President!

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  • Willy
    replied
    Originally posted by Black Forest View Post
    Damn Willy, you running for office! You should be serving pancakes to go with all that syrup.
    So this means I can count on your vote?
    Last edited by Willy; 04-20-2018, 02:43 AM. Reason: DUH!

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  • loose nut
    replied
    Originally posted by Black Forest View Post
    I was referring to the crater on the tip of the welding rod not a crater in the actual weld. Sorry for the confusion.
    I realized that after it was written but I just didn't bother to delete it.

    I usually just dropped partially used rods in the bucket. My welding instructor always said "one bad x-ray will buy a whole lot of rod so don't cheap out". A lot of the rods we used where $100/LB and it was still cheaper to throw rods away then take a chance F#(%!^g up a job with a bad spot in a weld. Working at home where you buy your own rods and the welds are not so critical, 'nother story.

    Captain K, at one time it was said that if you failed at everything else you could always be a farmer but times have changed and it isn't a simple job to survive on a farm these days. Takes ability and skill.
    Last edited by loose nut; 04-19-2018, 03:13 PM.

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  • loose nut
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain K View Post
    I don't much care for the implication here and elsewhere that farmers are either not smart enough or are too lazy to learn to do something properly. i.e. farmer rods There are shining stars and turds in our business, same as all of yours. Some of the worst looking welding I've seen has been on this BB and in the magazine. Seems HSM guys often can't be bothered to spend the time to learn to weld properly, even after spending many hours getting the machine work as perfect as possible. If you still think farmers are not too bright, lazy or sloppy I suggest you check out some of Tundra Twin Tracks threads here.

    P.S. I don't believe anybody here was deliberately disparaging farmers, it's just a personal rub of mine when the "dumb farmer" stereotype is thrown out.
    Your reading to much into it.

    I didn't mean farmers couldn't weld, only that it is the rod that is generally used on the farm (hence the name "farmers rod") because they usually have a cheaper ac buzz box that can't use 7018. 6013 is a general purpose steel rod, not as strong as 7018 but usually strong enough to get the job done. 6016S will give you a smooth-ish finish if handled well, some times called 6013 Satin Weld.

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  • Captain K
    replied
    Should have taken it as a compliment to us farmers I guess. My bad. Apologies if I offended.

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  • Black Forest
    replied
    Originally posted by Willy View Post
    Exactly!
    The 6013 is the go-to rod for guys that need an easy to use rod that doesn't require drying oven storage, doesn't over penetrate and yet still does an adequate job of keeping things operational. The farmer is the perfect example of the guy who doesn't usually have a small fortune invested in welding gear, doesn't do a lot of welding and so usually the 230 Amp AC welder will do for the bulk of every day welding chores. Not everybody wants or needs to have the equipment and training to do X-ray quality welds.
    Not that there aren't farmers out there that can't do a very good job welding a broken tractor spindle using pre-heat, nickel rods, and post-heat after completing a very challenging repair.

    The connotation associated with the word "farmer" lies strictly with the individual. I think it's a complement myself as it indicates to me one who possesses many skills.
    While I have many types of electrodes at my disposal, the farmers rods are used regularly and they have yet to fail me when used within their limits. This country lives off of the backs of farmers so I take their choice of rod as an endorsement.
    Damn Willy, you running for office! You should be serving pancakes to go with all that syrup.

    Leave a comment:


  • Willy
    replied
    Originally posted by danlb View Post
    It's funny how two people can read the same sentence different ways. I thought that the stereotype farmer was one of resourcefulness. Tales abound of farmers who are pressed into service as welders, mechanics, electrician or veterinarian due to the remote location.

    So when I read 6013 was "farmer's rod" I read that as a good general use rod if you could only have one on hand.
    Exactly!
    The 6013 is the go-to rod for guys that need an easy to use rod that doesn't require drying oven storage, doesn't over penetrate and yet still does an adequate job of keeping things operational. The farmer is the perfect example of the guy who doesn't usually have a small fortune invested in welding gear, doesn't do a lot of welding and so usually the 230 Amp AC welder will do for the bulk of every day welding chores. Not everybody wants or needs to have the equipment and training to do X-ray quality welds.
    Not that there aren't farmers out there that can't do a very good job welding a broken tractor spindle using pre-heat, nickel rods, and post-heat after completing a very challenging repair.

    The connotation associated with the word "farmer" lies strictly with the individual. I think it's a complement myself as it indicates to me one who possesses many skills.
    While I have many types of electrodes at my disposal, the farmers rods are used regularly and they have yet to fail me when used within their limits. This country lives off of the backs of farmers so I take their choice of rod as an endorsement.

    Leave a comment:


  • reggie_obe
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain K View Post
    P.S. I don't believe anybody here was deliberately disparaging farmers, it's just a personal rub of mine when the "dumb farmer" stereotype is thrown out.
    Originally posted by danlb View Post
    It's funny how two people can read the same sentence different ways. I thought that the stereotype farmer was one of resourcefulness. Tales abound of farmers who are pressed into service as welders, mechanics, electrician or veterinarian due to the remote location.

    So when I read 6013 was "farmer's rod" I read that as a good general use rod if you could only have one on hand.
    I'd tend to agree with what Captain K says could be implied about that stereotype.
    I can recall somebody getting bent out of shape with the mention of "Hillbilly" repairs.
    Last edited by reggie_obe; 04-19-2018, 12:45 PM.

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  • danlb
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain K View Post

    P.S. I don't believe anybody here was deliberately disparaging farmers, it's just a personal rub of mine when the "dumb farmer" stereotype is thrown out.
    It's funny how two people can read the same sentence different ways. I thought that the stereotype farmer was one of resourcefulness. Tales abound of farmers who are pressed into service as welders, mechanics, electrician or veterinarian due to the remote location.

    So when I read 6013 was "farmer's rod" I read that as a good general use rod if you could only have one on hand.

    Leave a comment:


  • Captain K
    replied
    I don't much care for the implication here and elsewhere that farmers are either not smart enough or are too lazy to learn to do something properly. i.e. farmer rods There are shining stars and turds in our business, same as all of yours. Some of the worst looking welding I've seen has been on this BB and in the magazine. Seems HSM guys often can't be bothered to spend the time to learn to weld properly, even after spending many hours getting the machine work as perfect as possible. If you still think farmers are not too bright, lazy or sloppy I suggest you check out some of Tundra Twin Tracks threads here.

    P.S. I don't believe anybody here was deliberately disparaging farmers, it's just a personal rub of mine when the "dumb farmer" stereotype is thrown out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Black Forest
    replied
    Originally posted by loose nut View Post
    If you pause in the puddle and then run back a little bit you don't get the crater. You learn that fast if you are welding chrome pipe because if you don't you get a tiny hole that goes right to the root pass. Farmers frequently use a/c buzz box's and they don't take well to 7018 but love 6013. That is why farmers use it. The deposit on the end of the rod is a kind of glass and it is a pita but if you get a good wrist action going you can knock it off easy enough when you re-strike the rod. Better still though it away and use a new one but then I wasn't paying for the rod..
    I was referring to the crater on the tip of the welding rod not a crater in the actual weld. Sorry for the confusion.

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  • loose nut
    replied
    Originally posted by danlb View Post
    Many say that welding is an art,

    Machinists are tradesmen, welders are artisan's.

    Dan
    Originally posted by Black Forest View Post
    Most "farmers" like the 6013 because it is easy to restart unlike 7018 that requires you to knock the flux off the tip of the rod to get a restart. The end of the 7018 craters when you end a bead so one is required to bang it on something or file it back. When I did a lot of "stick" welding I had a 6" piece of an old hoof rasp in a leather cuff that strapped to my non stinger arm. It made for a very good and quick method to knock the flux off. I don't like banging the rod as it wears the stinger jaws prematurely.
    If you pause in the puddle and then run back a little bit you don't get the crater. You learn that fast if you are welding chrome pipe because if you don't you get a tiny hole that goes right to the root pass. Farmers frequently use a/c buzz box's and they don't take well to 7018 but love 6013. That is why farmers use it. The deposit on the end of the rod is a kind of glass and it is a pita but if you get a good wrist action going you can knock it off easy enough when you re-strike the rod. Better still though it away and use a new one but then I wasn't paying for the rod..

    Leave a comment:


  • DICKEYBIRD
    replied
    Originally posted by Black Forest View Post
    Just run over to my place Milton and we will weld up those things in 5 minutes.
    No problem! Soon as I get enough Unobtanium® extracted to refuel my largest Transporter® beam, I'll be there in 1.29482 nanoseconds.

    Leave a comment:


  • Black Forest
    replied
    Originally posted by DICKEYBIRD View Post
    Great video Dan, I forgot all about YouTube welding videos! I'll be in a trance for a while.
    Just run over to my place Milton and we will weld up those things in 5 minutes. I have the perfect welding table for your project. In the picture I have set up the pieces to be welded for the end frames on some picnic tables I was building.

    Click on the picture to see a bigger version.

    Leave a comment:


  • Black Forest
    replied
    Originally posted by loose nut View Post
    6010 and 6011 are primarily used for open root welding where fast freeze is desirable, as you said. They are considerably weaker then 7018 welds because of hydrogen enbrittlement IE: not low hydrogen rods. 6013S will give you a nicer looking weld but it is still not as strong. It is generally referred to as a farmers rod because they it is used for repairs around the farm with a simple A/C buzzbox. Most 7018 rods do not work well with most A/C machines but if a DC machine is available then 7018 is the rod of choice. There are other rod which will work. Personally I prefer 6010 on open roots like pipe joints because the flux on 6011 tends to "toenail", burn more on one side then the other. Lincoln 5P or 5P+ is an excellent 6010 rod and our first choice at work, back when I did that sort of thing.
    Most "farmers" like the 6013 because it is easy to restart unlike 7018 that requires you to knock the flux off the tip of the rod to get a restart. The end of the 7018 craters when you end a bead so one is required to bang it on something or file it back. When I did a lot of "stick" welding I had a 6" piece of an old hoof rasp in a leather cuff that strapped to my non stinger arm. It made for a very good and quick method to knock the flux off. I don't like banging the rod as it wears the stinger jaws prematurely.

    Leave a comment:

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