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  • #46
    I think e bikes are slightly safer in that they can travel closer to the car speeds..
    A lot of the problem is folks coming up on bikes and misjudging the speed differential..
    Last edited by 754; 05-01-2018, 04:04 PM.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by 754 View Post
      I think e bikes are slightly safer inbthatvthey can travel closer to the car speeds..
      A lot of the problem is folks coming up on bikes and misjudging the speed differential..
      By that reasoning, wouldn't that make motorcycles safer than bicycles?

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      • #48
        Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
        I think the concept is great - but it's allot of miles shared and still trusting people who are removed from the situation and some that don't even care, he can wear all the bright cloths he want's - even attach a strobe light to his helmet, some will still not see him simply because their not looking at the road,

        You already stated you had some close calls Matt and that your changing your tactics, but it's not you who are to blame -
        thanks AK, I appreciate the concern but I'm not going to stop riding to work. I do have a lot of agency here - I choose where, when and how I ride and for the most part every ride is quiet and uneventful. There are a couple of junctions that I don't like, so now I'm even more cautious than I was before. I would have to drive the same distance (different route) every day anyway and I've had far more close calls driving far fewer miles than I have on the bike as people are generally polite and considerate to cyclists (especially as I'm going fast enough I don't get in their way for long) but are complete ****s to other drivers. Obviously the risk is not zero, but just stepping out of the door can get you killed. I've identified as many of the risks I can and have done (almost) everything I can to minimise those risks. Plus there's the whole small immediate risk of death from cycling vs. the larger long term risk of chronic disease from not cycling and sitting on my butt in a car for 1 1/2h a day

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        • #49
          Originally posted by 754 View Post
          I think e bikes are slightly safer inbthatvthey can travel closer to the car speeds..
          A lot of the problem is folks coming up on bikes and misjudging the speed differential..
          I think that's largely true in my experience but with a twist - there's a much longer "discovery period" for cars approaching from behind, but on the flip side cars in side streets or cross junctions can be surprised when I get there sooner than they expect for a bicycle. That's where a bright light on your helmet that you can point their way becomes very useful.

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          • #50
            It's like the self driving car thing. E bikes are a new technology out in the world... blood will be spilt, and laws will need to play catch up. I see guys hauling ass on ebikes.. they are a motorized vehicle often operating in non motorized areas like bike lanes, bike paths, sidewalks, trails, etc. Should they be there? Should they be licensed, taxed, and made to be out in the road like other motorized vehicles? That's one aspect..
            The other is that joe blow public in a car (or out) is not expecting someone on a bike to be going that fast, so accidents will happen.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by tomato coupe View Post
              No road cycling for me today -- it's overcast and gloomy, kind of like this thread.
              You maybe right and my intentions are not to be so negative for others, im glad for the most part that iv made a decision to try my best and stay away as much as possible though,
              can't tell you how many times iv had people get close and then lay on the horn as they go by just to rattle me,

              and that one kid on the crotch rocket that i wrote about before, leaning well into my little lane, crossing the white line and almost hitting my handlebars with his and he was well into the triple digits speed wise, like I say im done but that does not mean I don't worry about the people still out there,
              heck could still happen to me because I do have to still use roads a little to get the trails - could also get mushed in my little two seater car, is what it is.

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              • #52
                The run over from behind and sidewipe injuries are common on bicycles, less common on motorcycles..
                When you are crossing in front of a car on an e bike or fast bicycles forvthe most part, they autos often expect you are going a slower speed. It's up to you to antivipate that.
                When an auto comes up behind a bicyle, the faster it is going, the longer the auto driver has to decide How to pass the bike.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by softtail View Post
                  It's like the self driving car thing. E bikes are a new technology out in the world... blood will be spilt, and laws will need to play catch up. I see guys hauling ass on ebikes.. they are a motorized vehicle often operating in non motorized areas like bike lanes, bike paths, sidewalks, trails, etc. Should they be there? Should they be licensed, taxed, and made to be out in the road like other motorized vehicles? That's one aspect..
                  The other is that joe blow public in a car (or out) is not expecting someone on a bike to be going that fast, so accidents will happen.
                  there are already laws on e-bikes in the US and Europe/UK. They all have to be pedal assist (no pedalling = no motor output) and they're all limited to either 18 or 28mph, after which you're on your own with the wind. They are not a motorised vehicle as you have to pedal them like a bicycle. The battery powered scooter bikes in New York and other large cities are in the process of being banned (or if already banned, enforced) due to exactly the concerns you listed.

                  As for bikes (or e-bikes) being where they shouldn't be, there are already laws against riding bikes on sidewalks and ordinances against bikes of any sort on certain trails. If local areas expand those ordinances to e-bikes (as I think AK mentioned in his native Colorado) then that's their prerogative. Bikes going fast on bike paths is not an e-bike vs. non-e-bike thing, it's an idiot vs. not an idiot thing. You can try and legislate against idiocy, but boy would that be an uphill battle

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by tomato coupe View Post
                    By that reasoning, wouldn't that make motorcycles safer than bicycles?
                    Yes. Much safer on the basis of injuries per mile traveled. When I was younger I rode a bicycle everywhere. Older and fatter, I've put many miles on motorcycles (nearly all sportbikes). For 15 years or so I commuted 30 miles to San Francisco on motorcycles.

                    A crotch rocket at 150 MPH is more dangerous than a bicycle at 35, sure...

                    -js
                    There are no stupid questions. But there are lots of stupid answers. This is the internet.

                    Location: SF Bay Area

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                    • #55
                      I'm not for or against. I know what an ebike is. Get a guy cranking along at 40 rpm in his high gear with battery assist in a 25mph zone and things get pretty spicy. He's in the bike lane (going faster than cars are allowed), then overtakes a cyclist, swerves into the car lane to pass, then back into the bike lane, all the while going above the speed limit. We legislate idiocy all the time.. an uphill battle no doubt, but common. Seat belt laws for one.

                      Like Drones, etc etc, the laws and regs will catch up. They are a new tech on the scene.. many path users have no clue about them yet. Ditto with the hover boards.

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                      • #56
                        as with everything, it depends. I ride through 25mph zones all the time, I'll typically be doing 25-26mph. I could do 27 maybe 28mph if I really started cranking, but that's still within the margin of error on a car speedo. So most times I'm doing the same or a little slower than other road users. If there were a bunch of bikes in the bike lane, I'd be in the car lane next to it, going the same speed as cars are, much the same as you would on a road with 2 lanes each way and one lane with slower traffic. It's not that big of a deal. I think the worries of e-bike riders zooming all over the place like crazy are overblown - no difference to motorbike riders zooming all over the place. Sure some do, but most don't.

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                        • #57
                          Definitely not unfounded. Everyone from street cops to game wardens are having to try and get ahead of this thing on the landscape. A year or two ago it was drones. You mention trying to legislate against stupid... in that vein, our town and the various federal agencies that manage lands around here have had to put up 'no e bike' signs at every trailhead and access, in spite of those trails/roads being very clearly signed/mapped as non motorized for decades. There's confusion out there.. evidently quite a bit (hey don't kill the messenger) as what 'motorized' means. Lots of dumb bunnies don't realize there is such thing as an electric motor. Or they somehow believe themselves exempt because of pedal assist.. or maybe they just think they can pass off as a cyclist. Anyway you cut it, resources in all it's forms are being spent on it.

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                          • #58
                            My opinion is there's nothing wrong with testing your skills on my local trail systems and in fact that's what there here for, most all of them are ridden by local and out of towner hammerheads and it's everyone's responsibility to expect the unexpected,

                            that includes no jamming to tunes and blocking everything out, part of your being able to avoid things is hearing someone else coming from a half block away if your climbing and someone is hammering the descent that's easy to do if your not wearing earbuds and got the tunes cranked,

                            people everywhere are competing even if it's just against themselves there's apps like Strava that's linked to GPS and gives your rating from point A to point B of a pre-established trail,

                            that being said much responsibility does lie on the rider to know the area's where you can and can't turn it loose or runs that are closer to town where lot's of people just go for leisurely walks or are even pushing a baby stroller,

                            this is not difficult to decipher, generally the hammerhead runs would take the wheels right off a baby stroller even if you tried to push it at walking speed,,, general rule for anyone - walkers - joggers - hikers, bikers is to be alert of others at all times and this includes not wearing your ear buds as hearing is a HUGE factor around blind turns,
                            my particular area is taking off for Mt. biking and Mt. biking is the very reason why so many trails are funded and getting built, still not everyone is on one and not everyone is at the same level and some are just beginning but generally they learn real quick when to get off the single track when they hear an approaching roar,

                            just because there's no cars around does not mean you can't get hurt by someone else or hurt someone else, biggest pet peeve and realistic threat that should be banned is people thinking they can tune out the sound - they are way more dangerous than the experienced hammerheads that are using all their senses and not in some kind of la-la land...

                            I will add this; if your a roadie and like listening to tunes while dicing it up with the traffic you might as well have a "just kill me" sign on your forehead... it's an absolute death wish.
                            Last edited by A.K. Boomer; 05-01-2018, 06:27 PM.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Jim Stewart View Post
                              [Motorcycles are] much safer [than bicycles] on the basis of injuries per mile traveled.
                              Statistics don't support that.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by tomato coupe View Post
                                Statistics don't support that.
                                Well, since this is the internet, I could create some that do.

                                But nah - all I'm stating is my own experience.

                                -js
                                There are no stupid questions. But there are lots of stupid answers. This is the internet.

                                Location: SF Bay Area

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