Either a used car or a new bicycle ? Wow

[mattthemuppet]

Definitely not unfounded. Everyone from street cops to game wardens are having to try and get ahead of this thing on the landscape. A year or two ago it was drones. You mention trying to legislate against stupid... in that vein, our town and the various federal agencies that manage lands around here have had to put up 'no e bike' signs at every trailhead and access, in spite of those trails/roads being very clearly signed/mapped as non motorized for decades. There's confusion out there.. evidently quite a bit (hey don't kill the messenger) as what 'motorized' means. Lots of dumb bunnies don't realize there is such thing as an electric motor. Or they somehow believe themselves exempt because of pedal assist.. or maybe they just think they can pass off as a cyclist. Anyway you cut it, resources in all it's forms are being spent on it.

I think we're talking at cross purposes here - I take no issue with what you're saying about e-bikes on trails, paths or sidewalks. e-bikes are only an extension of shared use issues that mountainbikers/ cyclists have been dealing with/ causing for decades.

What I was addressing in my previous post was the topic of bike lanes - separate lanes on roads marked for the use of bicycles - and 25mph zones. Based on my own experience, I think those worries are misplaced.

[danlb]

I think we're talking at cross purposes here - I take no issue with what you're saying about e-bikes on trails, paths or sidewalks. e-bikes are only an extension of shared use issues that mountainbikers/ cyclists have been dealing with/ causing for decades.

You forgot that before there were mountainbikers/cyclists there were the hikers, horses and others who were fighting for "Their" trails.

[mattthemuppet]

yeah, that too!

[3 Phase Lightbulb]

People on bikes are a big problem over here. They are everywhere and they often ride side-by-side which makes it difficult to pass them. In the local town paper they list the police logs and awhile ago one of the entries said "Bike rider was hit by a bat". When we read it, we thought someone couldn't stand it anymore and was hitting them with a baseball bat but it was an actual flying bat that accidentally hit the rider.

[JRouche]

Well crap, Ill chime in.

Here in Cali the spandex bicycle rides that are with more that one other rider seem to think they can break the law. Riding side by side so they can discuss the local starbucks.

That is an infraction. You must occupy the far right, safest and closest to the side of the road. Side by side is not that. You must stop for stop signs and traffic signals. Again, may dont (the smart ones do).

As for MC vs BC fatalities? In 20 years I have been to just about the same for both. The main diff is the BC rider was usually killed by a motorist and the MC rider has both killed themselves or been killed. JR

[PStechPaul]

I imagine it's very difficult to force Californians to stay to the right side of the road.

[tomato coupe]

Well crap, Ill chime in.

Here in Cali the spandex bicycle rides that are with more that one other rider seem to think they can break the law. Riding side by side so they can discuss the local starbucks.

That is an infraction. You must occupy the far right, safest and closest to the side of the road. Side by side is not that. You must stop for stop signs and traffic signals. Again, may dont (the smart ones do).

Riding 2 abreast is allowed under California law.

[JRouche]

Riding 2 abreast is allowed under California law.

I do understand the yuppies out here will fight tooth and nail to put their own lives in danger. So be it. Folks like me will come up behind them and scrape the brain matter off the road. JR

21202.

(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:

(1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.

(2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

(3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For purposes of this section, a “substandard width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

(4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.

(b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway of a highway, which highway carries traffic in one direction only and has two or more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of that roadway as practicable.
(Amended by Stats. 1996, Ch. 674, Sec. 4. Effective January 1, 1997.)

[tomato coupe]

I do understand the yuppies out here will fight tooth and nail to put their own lives in danger. So be it. Folks like me will come up behind them and scrape the brain matter off the road. JR

21202.

(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:

(1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.

(2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

(3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For purposes of this section, a “substandard width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

(4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.

(b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway of a highway, which highway carries traffic in one direction only and has two or more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of that roadway as practicable.
(Amended by Stats. 1996, Ch. 674, Sec. 4. Effective January 1, 1997.)

Nothing in the above text prohibits riding two abreast. But I'll leave to to the lawyers:

"A common question is whether bicyclists riding in a group have to ride single file. Nothing in California law explicitly requires bicyclists to ride single file or prevents them from riding two or more abreast. However, some police officers have argued that single file is required, because the bicyclist on the left is not riding “as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway” per CVC 21202. But on the other hand, strictly speaking the bicyclist on the left cannot ride farther to the right, because of the presence of the bicyclist on the right. Furthermore, there’s no law prohibiting any two road users from driving side by side within a lane – so riding two abreast is arguably legal because it’s not illegal.

Nevertheless, such an interpretation requiring single file would only be applicable in those instances where a lane is wide enough for a motorist to safely share with single file bicyclists, but not with bicyclists who are two or more abreast. If a lane is too narrow for a single bicyclist to safely share with a motor vehicle, then CVC 21202 doesn’t apply, and since a single bicyclist slower than other traffic can be anywhere in the rightmost lane per CVC 21654, it would follow that the group may use the whole right lane.

In addition, bicyclists may lawfully ride two or more abreast on the shoulder, because the shoulder is not part of the roadway, and therefore not subject to the provisions of CVC 21202. Likewise, bicyclists may ride abreast, one on the roadway and one or more on the shoulder. Finally, bicyclists may ride two or more abreast in a bike lane, as CVC 21208 regulating bike lane use, requires at most that they ride within the bike lane, without specifying any particular position in it."

[JRouche]

Nothing in the above text prohibits riding two abreast. But I'll leave to to the lawyers:

"A common question is whether bicyclists riding in a group have to ride single file. Nothing in California law explicitly requires bicyclists to ride single file or prevents them from riding two or more abreast. However, some police officers have argued that single file is required, because the bicyclist on the left is not riding “as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway” per CVC 21202. But on the other hand, strictly speaking the bicyclist on the left cannot ride farther to the right, because of the presence of the bicyclist on the right. Furthermore, there’s no law prohibiting any two road users from driving side by side within a lane – so riding two abreast is arguably legal because it’s not illegal.

Nevertheless, such an interpretation requiring single file would only be applicable in those instances where a lane is wide enough for a motorist to safely share with single file bicyclists, but not with bicyclists who are two or more abreast. If a lane is too narrow for a single bicyclist to safely share with a motor vehicle, then CVC 21202 doesn’t apply, and since a single bicyclist slower than other traffic can be anywhere in the rightmost lane per CVC 21654, it would follow that the group may use the whole right lane.

In addition, bicyclists may lawfully ride two or more abreast on the shoulder, because the shoulder is not part of the roadway, and therefore not subject to the provisions of CVC 21202. Likewise, bicyclists may ride abreast, one on the roadway and one or more on the shoulder. Finally, bicyclists may ride two or more abreast in a bike lane, as CVC 21208 regulating bike lane use, requires at most that they ride within the bike lane, without specifying any particular position in it."

Like I said.. "I do understand the yuppies out here will fight tooth and nail to put their own lives in danger."

I have gone to court on these cases and always win. If the case goes down the road to applet that is not my concern.

Maybe a ride along would enlighten you, I suspect not.

You wont be guaranteed a fatal but you might see some of the other ins and outs about how the Los Angeles County streets are very dangerous for bicyclists. JR

[tomato coupe]

Like I said.. "I do understand the yuppies out here will fight tooth and nail to put their own lives in danger."

I have gone to court on these cases and always win. If the case goes down the road to applet that is not my concern.

Maybe a ride along would enlighten you, I suspect not.

You wont be guaranteed a fatal but you might see some of the other ins and outs about how the Los Angeles County streets are very dangerous for bicyclists. JR

I don't live in Los Angeles. I don't ride in Los Angeles. I have made no argument that riding in Los Angeles isn't dangerous.

[JRouche]

I don't live in Los Angeles. I don't ride in Los Angeles. I have made no argument that riding in Los Angeles isn't dangerous.

And my preface has always been that is the area I am talking about. JR

[tomato coupe]

And my preface has always been that is the area I am talking about. JR

You made a statement that riding two abreast in California is illegal. It is not illegal. That is the only thing that you wrote that I have addressed.

[JRouche]

Nothing in the above text prohibits riding two abreast. But I'll leave to to the lawyers:

And what part of this language dont you understand, it is simple language? JR

(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:

[JRouche]

And what part of this language dont you understand, it is simple language? JR

(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:

That doesn't mean riding as close to your boyfriend or girlfriend is the closest you can get to the side of the ROAD!

Endanger yourself is one thing. Endanger your loved ones is something else. Get a clue, the cars will run over you. Plain and simple. JR