Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Noisy Altas 10f

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Noisy Altas 10f

    been slowly fixing and replacing parts on an old Atlas 10F 12x52 runs pretty well for the most part but I have a problem that I cannot seem to solve.

    When I disengage the back gear from the spindle/headstock pulley assembly & engage the back gear assembly the machine starts making a horrible clattering sound that resonates in the large gear of the back gear assembly (it actually sounds like an old schoolhouse fire bell!)
    It gets a little better if I back off the assembly a little so the gears don't mesh as tightly but still VERY loud and lots of vibration. Enough vibration in fact to knock the gear assembly out of engagement with the headstock in fact.

    Has anyone had an Atlas do this & any ideas on how to fix it, as I basically can't use any of the speeds in the low range!

    -thanks
    -sean

  • #2
    not 100% sure about the 10F (I have a 618) but it could be that the back gear pin is still partially engaged with the spindle pulley even when in back gear, could be that the back gear is loose (is there a set screw bearing on a woodruff key in the spindle?), could be that the ball spring detent in the back gear lever isn't holding the reduction gear in place.

    I'd suggest going through that area carefully and check for clearances/ set screws, then try turning the spindle by hand to see what's happening. You can get parts manuals and breakdowns online to see what goes where.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by mattthemuppet View Post
      not 100% sure about the 10F (I have a 618) but it could be that the back gear pin is still partially engaged with the spindle pulley even when in back gear, could be that the back gear is loose (is there a set screw bearing on a woodruff key in the spindle?), could be that the ball spring detent in the back gear lever isn't holding the reduction gear in place.

      I'd suggest going through that area carefully and check for clearances/ set screws, then try turning the spindle by hand to see what's happening. You can get parts manuals and breakdowns online to see what goes where.
      Thanks mattthemuppet:
      I've been over the spindle & gear pretty carefully the pin is clear & not catching anywhere nor is the gear loose. I do not think there is a ball detent in the lever (though I have not checked)

      The bell sound is rapid and matches the large gear on the assembly as it meshes with the back gear (6/7 times per second)
      The bell sound is definitely coming from the larger gear on the back gear assembly, I really don't think it should be resonating like that!!

      I'm wondering:

      1. could the gear assembly be out of alignment? i.e. the small gear and large gear are not engaging the spindle equally.

      2. could the sound be indicating a cracked gear? (will probably look for this next time I get a few minutes!)

      There does not seem to be much option to adjust the assembly other than shimming it kind of a major operation.

      -sean

      Comment


      • #4
        what is the gear mesh like for the backgear on the spindle and the reduction gear that you engage with a lever? If the gears are not fully engaged they'll sing in the way that you describe. On the 618 at least there are 2 positions for the back gear lever each with a positive detent created by a spring loaded ball in the lever (which is a royal pain to fit). If your 10F is supposed to have a ball in the back gear lever and doesn't, that may prevent the gears from staying engaged. An exploded parts diagram would help.

        Comment


        • #5
          Is it at all possible that the wrong gears were used? A ringing sounds like the teeth are crashing into each other due to mismatched module. That would fit with improving slightly as the gears are moved apart.

          Dan
          At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

          Location: SF East Bay.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by mattthemuppet View Post
            what is the gear mesh like for the backgear on the spindle and the reduction gear that you engage with a lever? If the gears are not fully engaged they'll sing in the way that you describe. On the 618 at least there are 2 positions for the back gear lever each with a positive detent created by a spring loaded ball in the lever (which is a royal pain to fit). If your 10F is supposed to have a ball in the back gear lever and doesn't, that may prevent the gears from staying engaged. An exploded parts diagram would help.
            I'll take a peek for the detent, but I do not think so. (actually I did just look - no, no detent.

            Here is the parts diagram:

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by danlb View Post
              Is it at all possible that the wrong gears were used? A ringing sounds like the teeth are crashing into each other due to mismatched module. That would fit with improving slightly as the gears are moved apart.

              Dan
              This is a VERY real possibility the lathe is a bit of a mix-master, I replaced several gears on the headstock that drive the quick change gearbox - they were 3/8 width, were supposed to be 1/2" & were flopping around quite a bit.... The lead screw was attached at the tailstock end with some home made bracket that was forcing the lead screw out of trueness. by about 1/4"!!

              Now I'm wondering if the 2 back gears on the eccentric shaft are in alignment with each other i.e. something screwy with the woodruff slots/keys or if the eccentric itself could be twisted??

              Comment


              • #8
                Put some dykem on the gears & see what's meshing & what's not. That is a 10" with bushings, is there any play in the headstock?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by flylo View Post
                  Put some dykem on the gears & see what's meshing & what's not. That is a 10" with bushings, is there any play in the headstock?
                  I was thinking on brushing on some prussian blue & running it dry to see what was and wasn't.

                  no play in the headstock spindle assembly itself. though the smaller of the 2 backgears (on the spindle) does have play right to left, i.e. it can slide along the spindle towards the pulley assembly ~ maybe ~ 1/16" but no rotational/axial play. In fact I can't move the collar behind it at all, so not sure how I would even get it out of there is I had to!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The backgear is held to the spindle shaft with a setscrew on the key. On mine, this gets loose sometimes. When the setscrew gets loose, the gear clatters.

                    -Jess

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JHartley View Post
                      The backgear is held to the spindle shaft with a setscrew on the key. On mine, this gets loose sometimes. When the setscrew gets loose, the gear clatters.

                      -Jess
                      ahhhhhhhhh... interesting. the guy I bought this from had the oiler set screw on the spindle pulley assembly so tight it was preventing the pulleys from moving.

                      this is the small backgear on the spindle and for a 10F you are referring to? I do not recall any gears on this thing having set screws at all, they are all using a key & collar to be held in place. none showing on the diagram either?

                      though, I had seen reference somewhere that there were 2 different bearing arrangements for the spindles on these lathes...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I am talking about the large backgear, 10-241 in the diagram. The setscrew holds the woodruff key in place. The setscrew is on the bearing (right) side of the gear. When this gets loose, mine rings like a bell.

                        -Jess

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I see also in the diagram that there are shims indicated on each end of the back gear shaft portion. If the set screw to the big bull back gear is tight and not allowing it to ring as posted above and considering you mentioned that it only rings if you engage the back gear arrangement fully then I'm thinking it needs to be shimmed out on the one side a touch so the big gear isn't as snug. The sketch indicates .002 and .003 options. Is it possible you mixed them up if they were different from side to side for some reason?
                          Chilliwack BC, Canada

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by sean69 View Post
                            . though the smaller of the 2 backgears (on the spindle) does have play right to left, i.e. it can slide along the spindle towards the pulley assembly ~ maybe ~ 1/16" but no rotational/axial play. In fact I can't move the collar behind it at all, so not sure how I would even get it out of there is I had to!
                            There should be no play in the stackup of the pulley and gears. On the outboard side of small gear is a collar with two setscrews. Loosen these and pry or push assembly tight together and retighten.

                            The mesh of the backgears can be adjusted via the shims, I adjust with a sheet of paper to establish clearance.
                            Jim H.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I used paper also. It's an old machine if not using "Precision Timkin Roller Bearings" The 10F was a plain or babbit bearing 10" swing with no QCGB & started production I think in 1937. Are you sure this is what you have? A lot of good info on lathes.co.UK

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X