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How to remove ethanal for those who can't find ethanal free gas

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  • How to remove ethanal for those who can't find ethanal free gas

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSnE4MYwRzs
    "Let me recommend the best medicine in the
    world: a long journey, at a mild season, through a pleasant
    country, in easy stages."
    ~ James Madison

  • #2
    He was doing okay right up to the last few seconds when he declared that there were 2 layers in the jug, water and ethanol. It was water+ethanol and gas. The water & ethanol does not separate out! That's the whole point of this method.

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    • #3
      You can burn it off to by putting it in an open container outside and lighting the top on fire and let it burn till the fire goes out.
      Andy

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      • #4
        Originally posted by vpt View Post
        You can burn it off to by putting it in an open container outside and lighting the top on fire and let it burn till the fire goes out.
        I assume you're talking about the gas on top in the jugs. To what end? So you can pour the water down the drain?

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        • #5
          I've been separating the alcohol and gas with water ever since the 'regular' pumps at gas stations went away.

          If you don't want to dispose of the water down the drain, simply let it evaporate

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          • #6
            What about just maintaining separation with added water in a large custom stationary gas tank that you use to fill your other tanks. Bleed off the water/ethanal mix at the bottom like you would remove water from a compressor every couple of days In fact, an old 80 gallon compressor might be a good vessel for building one. The idea being you remove fuel from the top when filling up other tanks and remove the water/ethanal occasionally from the bottom.

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            • #7
              Is the guy in the video a refinery chemist in disguise??

              JL..................

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              • #8
                Wouldn't it be better for the US farmers to diversify? Surely they could grow a variety of crops?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by old mart View Post
                  Wouldn't it be better for the US farmers to diversify? Surely they could grow a variety of crops?
                  That depends on what you mean by "diversify". Diversification often comes at the cost of decreased efficiency and/or more capital expenditure (e.g. needing special equipment for each crop you grow). Specialization and the barter system play major roles in "progress" and an increased standard of living. As my generation becomes more interested in self-sufficiency, they are learning this lesson. Raising enough food for your family, providing enough fuel to heat your house, etc. becomes a full time job, especially if you want any kind of variety in your diet. But if you can specialize in a few things (say cows and chickens) and do it really efficiently, you can trade some surplus meat/dairy/eggs with your neighbor who specializes in, say, apples, peaches and cherries. Extend this a bit and you can start introducing luxuries like coffee, chocolate, citrus, and other things that don't grow in your climate. And of course you can extend this to all different things. I don't have to be a talented artist to enjoy a beautiful painting in my house. Instead, I can trade a service I'm good at for a service someone else is good at.

                  So, if you mean "diversify" like grow a variety of similar crops (e.g. corn, soy, wheat) then, yes! That's what most farmers do. But if you mean diversify like old fashioned homestead farms (cows, chickens, pigs, vegetables, fruit, the whole shebang), then no...

                  But I'm responding your comment largely out of context. What were you referencing?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 3 Phase Lightbulb View Post
                    What about just maintaining separation with added water in a large custom stationary gas tank that you use to fill your other tanks. Bleed off the water/ethanal mix at the bottom like you would remove water from a compressor every couple of days In fact, an old 80 gallon compressor might be a good vessel for building one. The idea being you remove fuel from the top when filling up other tanks and remove the water/ethanal occasionally from the bottom.
                    First of all, as a chemist I just want to be clear on one thing - it is spelled "ethanol". Ethanal is a different chemical, and a rather nasty one.

                    This method of washing out a water soluble compound from a hydrocarbon solvent is a very common method, and we generally teach it in the 1'st year organic chem lab. While the method shown will work, there are some problems.

                    First of all, 3 Ph Lightbulb has the right idea about letting it sit. As we saw in the video the rate of separation of the two layers can take quite a while... If he were to check his large container the next day he will probably find a few hundred mls of water at the bottom. This could be a problem if the gas is put into a car's gas tank before complete separation has occured, and then it sits in the fuel tank for several days and water comes out of suspension, since the water could be preferentially taken up by the outlet and form a non-flammible plug of liquid water in the fuel line. Not good. The longer you leave the extraction the more complete the phase separation will be.

                    In the laboratory we don't want to wait several days, so we speed up the phase separation by doing a second wash with a concentrated salt solution called brine. The brine wash takes the water out of the hydrocarbons and doesn't dissolve into the hydrocarbons. However, there will be some small bubbles of brine suspended (not dissolved) in the hydrocarbon layer, and in the lab we remove that by treating it with a solid drying agent that absorbs the brine along with it's salt burden. That would be a lot of bother (and expense) for burning it in your car. However, I wouldn't want to put brine treated gas in my car without a final drying step, so it seems like brine treatment is probably out.

                    Next point - very few extractions are 100% effective. In this case it doesn't matter because leaving a few percent of ethanol in the gas won't destroy anything. But if you wanted to get rid of more of the ethanol it would be better to wash it twice in a row with 1/2 gallon of water than to wash it once with 1 gallon. Industrially they end up taking this to the extreme by spraying a fine mist of pure water in at the top and stirring it at a rate which just barely allows the water to drift down through the solvent to be extracted. The dirty water is removed from the bottom. Dirty solvent is introduced at the bottom and extracted solvent is withdrawn at the top. This counter-current extraction allows a continuous feed system to be as efficient as possible.

                    Then another thing to consider is that you are removing many of the additives. I have mixed feelings about this. I know that some of the additives slowly react with each to cause "shellac" to form on fuel tanks, fuel lines and carb floats... and I use Stabil in my chain saws, etc., to prevent that. On the other hand I can't help but think that the additives do something good and aren't there merely to make it impossible to store the fuel... So, I'm not sure removing them is a good idea. It may lead to increased knocking, etc.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dan_the_Chemist View Post
                      I know that some of the additives slowly react with each to cause "shellac" to form on fuel tanks, fuel lines and carb floats... and I use Stabil in my chain saws, etc., to prevent that.
                      I know Stabil works great, but have wondered exactly how it works?

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                      • #12
                        I jut picked up some Stabil and bought the small bottle after seeing it has a 2 year expiration!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dan_the_Chemist View Post
                          First of all, as a chemist I just want to be clear on one thing - it is spelled "ethanol". Ethanal is a different chemical, and a rather nasty one.

                          ...

                          I know that some of the additives slowly react with each to cause "shellac" to form on fuel tanks, fuel lines and carb floats... and I use Stabil in my chain saws, etc., to prevent that.
                          As an amateur woodworker, I just one to be clear on one thing: they form a "varnish". Shellac is formed from the waxy byproduct of the lac beetle. Lacquer (originally) is formed from the sap of the lacquer tree (which, interestingly, is closely related to North American poison ivy and contains high levels of urushiol). Okay, enough nitpicking. I know "shellac" is commonly used to describe the buildup on carbs but it always bothers me

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                          • #14
                            As an amateur machinist, I just want to know what this has to do with me. Why do I care and what does gasohol have to do with machining?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by old mart View Post
                              Wouldn't it be better for the US farmers to diversify? Surely they could grow a variety of crops?
                              Wi is harvesting its first hemp crops this fall.

                              https://www.wpr.org/wisconsin-farmer...season-decades
                              Andy

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