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  • OT More dirt on electric cars



    Which is not to mention that many, perhaps most, are actually "powered by coal", when you look into it.

    We sure ain't "there" yet.
    CNC machines only go through the motions.

    Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
    Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
    Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
    I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
    Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

  • #2
    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-electric-cars

    Which is not to mention that many, perhaps most, are actually "powered by coal", when you look into it.

    We sure ain't "there" yet.
    Not really surprising as dollars translate pretty well to total emissions/energy expenditure and batteries are still very expensive.
    And same applies pretty much also to renewable energy: If its expensive to produce it's going to have lots of total emissions/energy expenditure.
    Last edited by MattiJ; 10-22-2018, 10:39 AM.
    Location: Helsinki, Finland, Europe

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    • #3
      This issue of carbon footprint starts right at the beginning with the machines that mine the ore used to make the metal for cars and any other products. It goes further too into the energy needed to make the metal and the machines that are used to make the cars. And on and on and on...... I wonder if they included THAT in the chart. And then that other bugaboo.... where does the electricity used to charge these cars come from? If we replace gasoline with electricity that means the existing electricity production network will need to handle that additional amount of load. And if a country has no way to produce electricity other than burning coal to run the systems how does THAT help? It's still CO2 being pushed into the atmosphere.

      Bottom line is it really does not matter if we have electric cars or not. In the end we all simply need to own or use less "stuff" and burn less fuels in order to cut down on the whole energy use/carbon footprint thing. But that's not going to happen......
      Chilliwack BC, Canada

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      • #4
        I've been trying to find where I can buy a nuclear powered furnace and power generator but nobody seems to be selling them.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by 3 Phase Lightbulb View Post
          I've been trying to find where I can buy a nuclear powered furnace and power generator but nobody seems to be selling them.

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          • #6
            Well 3pl, you're in luck! TVA (Tennessee Valley Authority) has one for sale as we speak (actually as we've been speaking for the last 30 years.)



            You probably just overlooked it since it wasn't on Ebay or Craigslist.
            Lynn (Huntsville, AL)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Michael Edwards View Post
              I'm looking for a nuclear fission unit which is easily controllable. A fusion unit is more difficult to maintain

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              • #8
                Originally posted by BCRider View Post
                ................ And if a country has no way to produce electricity other than burning coal to run the systems how does THAT help? ...............
                Oh come on now. All that country has to do is put up a bunch of electric solar panels. As EVERYONE knows, if we just put a little more money and effort into research (and holding hands and singing Kumbaya) the newly developed panels will use zero resources and zero energy in their construction and installation and will produce electricity 24/7 regardless of weather conditions.

                Try to keep up with the modern trends.

                Steve

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by BCRider View Post
                  This issue of carbon footprint starts right at the beginning with the machines that mine the ore used to make the metal for cars and any other products. It goes further too into the energy needed to make the metal and the machines that are used to make the cars. And on and on and on...... I wonder if they included THAT in the chart. And then that other bugaboo.... where does the electricity used to charge these cars come from? If we replace gasoline with electricity that means the existing electricity production network will need to handle that additional amount of load. And if a country has no way to produce electricity other than burning coal to run the systems how does THAT help? It's still CO2 being pushed into the atmosphere.

                  Bottom line is it really does not matter if we have electric cars or not. In the end we all simply need to own or use less "stuff" and burn less fuels in order to cut down on the whole energy use/carbon footprint thing. But that's not going to happen......
                  The machines and factories somewhat cancel out, as they are used for ANY vehicle. It is the specialty stuff, batteries, and generating that matter.

                  By the time the electricity is turned into driveline torque, the EV seems to show up LESS efficient than the IC vehicle, due to the losses inherent in all steps from generating, thru transmission, battery charging losses in charger and battery, battery discharge losses, efficiency of inverter, and more significant, the motor....... Notice all the battery cooling needed..... that is due to losses.

                  "Efficiency" is not the reason for the EV now. Maybe someday. The real reason for the EV is to cut central urban pollution. They can do a good job of that, moving the pollution to power plants that are "somewhere else". That's not necessarily "bad", it just may not be "ideal".

                  Too bad we cannot outsource power generation to china. If we could, we would have, being stupid americans..... but luckily we could not, so our power failures and overstretched grid are our own home grown problem.

                  Trying to "pry everyone out of their cars" out in the country, with futile efforts to put the square peg EV into the round hole of ex-urban transportation, is just stupid, and takes away credibility from the basic idea. The EV is NOT the universal solution for all problems. The reason it is seen as such is technically ignorant and illiterate people, and the old, old issue of finding a lot more nails, when all you have is a hammer.
                  Last edited by J Tiers; 10-22-2018, 01:50 PM.
                  CNC machines only go through the motions.

                  Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                  Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                  Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                  I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                  Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I wonder if a solar panel will ever be developed that can be applied to a car like a vinyl wrap.
                    Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

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                    • #11
                      Wow! The nineteenth century was wondering where all you luddites had dissapeared to.

                      Any country that can only use coal to produce electricity must be being run by a moron.

                      Nuclear power is cost effective and reliable if you use enough of it, especially if you re-process the spent fuel rods.

                      The grid can cope in most parts of the world, due to off-peak charging and peak rate pricing.

                      If the local grid can't cope, it's time it was upgraded. How does it cope with A/Cs, electric heating and walk in turkey fryers etc?

                      In the meantime, I'll keep my 50 (US)mpg diesel car and hope to replace it with a plug in hybrid in 2025.
                      Location- Rugby, Warwickshire. UK

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 3 Phase Lightbulb View Post
                        I'm looking for a nuclear fission unit which is easily controllable. A fusion unit is more difficult to maintain
                        You're in luck. They are on sale.......less than $10

                        View all results for thinkgeek. Search our huge selection of new and used video games at fantastic prices at GameStop.

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                        • #13
                          I dunno Mark... we'd need to look at a state's or other regional area's volume of gasoline and diesel used and convert the energy used to actually move the vehicles to KW-Hr's. But when I look around at the roads out there I see an awful lot of vehicles. I don't think the grids are ready for THAT sort of volume.

                          And while I agree with you on the nuclear side of things there's the strong grass roots attitude of "not in MY backyard you're not...." when it comes to building and running new reactors.

                          My own reply wasn't really aimed at just the cars either. Human society as a whole needs to shift a lot to properly lower our carbon footprint. And those shifts need to be at far more basic levels of living than just a switch from gasoline to electric cars. We can still have our toys and tech. But how they are made and how we move people to the places where such things are made all needs to change a lot.
                          Last edited by BCRider; 10-22-2018, 02:13 PM.
                          Chilliwack BC, Canada

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mark Rand View Post
                            Wow! The nineteenth century was wondering where all you luddites had dissapeared to.

                            Any country that can only use coal to produce electricity must be being run by a moron.

                            Nuclear power is cost effective and reliable if you use enough of it, especially if you re-process the spent fuel rods.

                            .
                            I think that's mostly the east coast guys talking about coal; it's almost unheard of out here. On the west coast of the US the power we generate mainly comes from hydroelectric dams, wind turbines, and nuclear.

                            Of course, things being what they are, my understanding is we sell a large chunk of that power to someone else, and buy "cheaper" power from elsewhere for our own use, which may well be coal generated. That doesnt' make much sense to me, but that's not my area of expertise.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Blackfoot View Post
                              You're in luck. They are on sale.......less than $10

                              https://www.thinkgeek.com/electronic...argers-cables/
                              NO!! Those are Mr. Fusion units. I need a Mr. Fission unit. And I want one that can generate ~600K BTU of heat and 100kW of power simultaneously.

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