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Oil Change - Jet geared head lathe

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  • Boostinjdm
    replied
    I'd have to double check, but I think I settled on jd303 from the local farm store. I think it had the anti wear and corrosion inhibitors. Supposed to be fairly common in tractors as both gear lube and hydraulic fluid. For the price (about $30 per 5 gal) I'll never hesitate to change it.

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  • Willy
    replied
    Originally posted by wdtom44 View Post
    I have not seen anything about automatic transmission fluid in this discussion. It would seem it is a gear lube and hydraulic oil combination and lasts for a long time in transmissions. Any comments?
    From the Lathes UK website:


    Suitable oils
    For use in many types of machine tool - including the geared headstocks and screwcutting gearboxes of lathes and milling machines - manufacturers from the 1940s onwards often recommended an "anti-wear" Hydraulic oil such as Shell Tellus 27- although some did specify a plain mineral oil ("Vitrea" in various grades, without any additives). These lubricants can deliver their specification performance while also being thin enough to be fed through wicks - a common fitting on many older machine tools, and used to draw up oil but leaving dirt behind. They are also formulated to resist the corrosion of copper and bronze - a good thing for the bronze bearings commonly found in headstocks, aprons and screwcutting gearboxes - and not something an "ordinary" oil will have, and certainly not a motor oil (as a tip, modern motor oils are no good in older-type machine tools - they are designed for high shear rates, high-pressure pump feed and the sort of thin films that hold bearing surfaces apart at high r.p.m.) Car engine oils also contain detergents and dispersants intended to that keep particles of dirt, metal and combustion by-products in suspension. This is ideal if a filter is provided to trap the nasty bits but not so good otherwise. Oils intended for machine-tool use allow the particles to sink to the bottom of a sump and (hopefully) stay there. The writer has dismantled more than one geared headstock to find an almost solid layer of encrusted dirt, metal shaving and "bronze dust" in the base.
    Avoid the hydraulic oils intended for automatic transmission systems (ATC). These have been known to cause trouble in some machine-tool applications.

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  • Glug
    replied
    Originally posted by wdtom44 View Post
    I have not seen anything about automatic transmission fluid in this discussion. It would seem it is a gear lube and hydraulic oil combination and lasts for a long time in transmissions. Any comments?
    Yeah.. Why not just use the appropriate lubricant?

    Also, quite a bit of ATF has a low quality base that is rancid or quickly goes rancid - all while still in the original container.

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  • wdtom44
    replied
    I have not seen anything about automatic transmission fluid in this discussion. It would seem it is a gear lube and hydraulic oil combination and lasts for a long time in transmissions. Any comments?

    Leave a comment:


  • mickeyf
    replied
    has sat idle for many years
    Just curious. How many years is "many"? And after how many does one start to be concerned?

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  • lakeside53
    replied
    You will have no problem using ISO68 hydraulic oil. Look up the DTE spec sheets and you will see very minor differences none of which may be of concern for your use. NAPA sells a house brand of AW68 remarkably cheap. They are "non-detergent" and you will not have a problem with suspended particles needing a filter. For many reasons, stay away from "engine oils".

    BTW... if you do have "particles" change your oil a couple of times.

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  • Willy
    replied
    Remember that it is not so much an issue of the weight of the oil as the type of oil.
    An ISO 68 hydraulic oil would be a better choice than an automotive 30 weight engine oil even though the viscosity would be almost the same.

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  • DATo
    replied
    Originally posted by Willy View Post
    Sorry but I missed this post earlier.

    ISO 68 simply refers to the viscosity of the oil per International Standardization Organization testing methods. We are much more familiar with SAE motor oil viscosity numbers like 10,20,30 etc. An ISO 68 viscosity oil is roughly equivalent to a high 20, low 30 SAE engine oil viscosity if you want to draw a comparison that means more to you, as it relates to something you may be more familiar with.
    The "VG" only means viscosity grade and does not describe the type of oil. I'll assume for now that it is a straight hydraulic oil, which is perfectly fine for your intended use. If that is what it actually is.
    Many thanks Willy. That pretty much sums it up. This leaves me with an option of using straight 30W if I understood you correctly and all else fails. "VG" = "viscosity grade" ... of course, what else would it stand for - now I really feel like an idiot. *LOL* Thanks again.

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  • sch
    replied
    This is interesting. About 2006, when barrel of oil ranged from $50-70 I bought a 5 gal bucket of the Mobil DTE68 from a local distributor for ~$40-45. Now when
    oil is running in the same price range at the well head, same bucket is 2x-3x the price, where gasoline in my area is $1.92-2.10/gal and the price fluctuates weekly.
    Over the years other threads have endorsed the use of the relatively inexpensive hydraulic fluid mentioned at Tractor Supply or Sams in headstocks.
    Fancy motor oils (multigrade) have been panned because of the suspension agents in them to keep debris suspended til filtered out by the oil filter,where in a lathe
    you want that stuff to settle out or stick to a magnet. FWIW the Sams hydraulic bucket is ISO68.

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  • Willy
    replied
    Originally posted by DATo View Post
    Many thanks for all your responses. I've read them all. In the meantime I've located an iso-VG-68 at Wal-Mart of all places which has a 5 star approval rating by customers. Don't know what the "VG" means ... hopefully "Very Good". Delivery time 3 days.

    Any thoughts on this stuff?
    Sorry but I missed this post earlier.

    ISO 68 simply refers to the viscosity of the oil per International Standardization Organization testing methods. We are much more familiar with SAE motor oil viscosity numbers like 10,20,30 etc. An ISO 68 viscosity oil is roughly equivalent to a high 20, low 30 SAE engine oil viscosity if you want to draw a comparison that means more to you, as it relates to something you may be more familiar with.
    The "VG" only means viscosity grade and does not describe the type of oil. I'll assume for now that it is a straight hydraulic oil, which is perfectly fine for your intended use. If that is what it actually is.

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  • Willy
    replied
    I've always used an ISO 68 straight hydraulic oil in lathe headstocks and gearboxes without issue as these make excellent spindle oils and are heavily fortified with rust, oxidation, and robust anti-wear additives and are recommended for this type of service by the various refinerys that produce them.
    This is not to be confused with TDH fluids (transmission-differential-hydraulic) that are also commonly used in some tractors, this is a totally different oil.

    However if you want the Mobile DTE Medium Heavy ISO 68 I see it is available at Walmart at a reasonable price. I doubt you'll need more that the one gallon jug unless you are prone to spilling a lot.
    And yes, install a magnetic drain plug while you are in there, cheap insurance.

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  • reggie_obe
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparky_NY View Post
    As well as O'Reillys, autozone, advance, napa and many other auto parts stores. Tractor supply often runs it on sale, $20 when on sale.
    Just mentioned Sam's because they had 5 gal cheap hyd. oil at $13+ at one time and $16+ for the premium stuff.

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  • old mart
    replied
    Why not a good synthetic motor oil, say 5W40, it works with gears pretty well, just ask any owner of a Japanese motorcycle. This type of oil is superior for preventing "dry starts" as it clings to all the surfaces better than mineral oil. Also, a magnet secured within the sump will catch most of the ferrous particals in the oil.
    Last edited by old mart; 12-07-2018, 12:52 PM.

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  • Sparky_NY
    replied
    Originally posted by Glug View Post
    Hydraulic systems, and fluid, are different. They have filters to collect suspended debris. Your lathe does not. This is also the oil that lubes the spindle bearings, which are presumed to be some variety of high precision.

    Does it matter in a Jet lathe, especially one that does not have a clutch? Perhaps not. For some machines it certainly does.

    Also, any dirt, dust or debris that get in that headstock while open will go through your bearings. That is a big deal, literally. Especially since you have no filtration. But, as the stories go, it may have casting sand and what not in there.

    +1 many put a magnet in the bottom of the head which isn't a bad idea.

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  • Sparky_NY
    replied
    Originally posted by DATo View Post
    Many thanks for all your responses. I've read them all. In the meantime I've located an iso-VG-68 at Wal-Mart of all places which has a 5 star approval rating by customers. Don't know what the "VG" means ... hopefully "Very Good". Delivery time 3 days.

    Any thoughts on this stuff?
    Walmart has a few VG-68 oils I found but they all seem to refer to use in hydraulic applications only, no mention of gears or transmissions. Often its a matter of different/more additives. ISO 68 is merely the weight of the oil, doesn't tell you much else. I see the VG designation used in conjunction with ISO, ie ISO VG-68. I found hints that the VG nomenclature is possibly used overseas. It isn't that critical but personally I would like a ISO 68 weight oil that at least mentions usage in gear applications.

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