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Hydraulic pump PSI correlation with Hydraulic Cylinder Ton

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  • Hydraulic pump PSI correlation with Hydraulic Cylinder Ton

    I have a 4000 PSI Hydraulic pump and a 10 ton hydraulic cylinder from JD2 for my pipe bender.

    The manual for the 10 ton cylinder does not mention the diameter of the cylinder so is there some type of standard used to determine what the max PSI would be to provide the max 10T of force? I would expect the diameter/area of the cylinder to be one of the specifications provided but it doesn't seem to be. I would expect if the area of the cylinder was 1 square inch, then ~20,000 PSI would be the max PSI to lift 10T. If the area was 2 square inches then ~10,000 PSI would be needed to lift 10T, etc.

    I guess I'm wondering why they match a 4K PSI pump with a 10T cylinder, unless it just happens that the 10T cylinder is the best fit and maybe is only being used/needed as a <= ~4 TON (assuming the cyl area is ~2 sq/in).

    It seems to me, bending 2" DOM with 1/4" wall tubing might need more than 4 tons so I'm wondering if the 4K PSI pump is enough, but I still don't know what PSI correlates with the 10T cylinder, etc.

  • #2
    The piston diameter should be about half way in between
    the rod diameter and the body diameter. Should be close.
    And it is likely to fall on an even fractional inch size.

    -D
    Last edited by Doozer; 01-03-2019, 03:03 PM.
    DZER

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    • #3
      Yup, it depends on piston area.

      10kpsi seem to sort of industry standard on these hand operated hydraulics and the cylinder tonnage is most likely calculated based on that. Why they offer 4kpsi pump? Probably because they are cheapscate using industrial/agricultural pump where 4kpsi is more common working pressure.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by MattiJ View Post
        Yup, it depends on piston area.

        10kpsi seem to sort of industry standard on these hand operated hydraulics and the cylinder tonnage is most likely calculated based on that. Why they offer 4kpsi pump? Probably because they are cheapscate using industrial/agricultural pump where 4kpsi is more common working pressure.
        These electric 4K PSI pumps appear to be commonly matched with 10T cylinders. Same pump and cylinder is offered by JD2 for the Model 32 bender.

        https://www.trick-tools.com/Electric...eckit_105_5145

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        • #5
          Yes piston area x system pressure.If you have the SPX Powerteam cylinder the piston area should be 2.236 in/2 and should reach 10tons @8948 psi.

          https://www.spxflow.com/de/multimedi...am_PT1403B.pdf

          I noticed JD offers two pumps,the 4k electric you have and the 10k air over hydraulic.Could it be they wanted to limit the tonnage applied to the bender?Or maybe the electric 4k model is intended to bend smaller tubing at a faster cycle rate?
          Last edited by wierdscience; 01-03-2019, 03:33 PM.
          I just need one more tool,just one!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by wierdscience View Post
            Yes piston area x system pressure.If you have the SPX Powerteam cylinder the piston area should be 2.236 in/2 and should reach 10tons @8948 psi.

            I noticed JD offers two pumps,the 4k electric you have and the 10k air over hydraulic.Could it be they wanted to limit the tonnage applied to the bender?Or maybe the electric 4k model is intended to bend smaller tubing at a faster cycle rate?
            That's what I'm wondering, but there is a video of YouTube showing how difficult it is to bend 2" DOM with 1/4" wall manually so they install the hydraulics using the same 4K electric pump and it bends just fine so I'm wondering how many tons is really needed to bend something like the 2" tube with 1/4" wall which is bigger than anything I'll be bending.

            Comment


            • #7
              So 4k psi x 2.236 = 8944lbs of force.So how much of a lever arm?

              My question would be,if 4k on that unit will bend 2x.250 wall DOM,what will the 10k pump do or will it break something?
              I just need one more tool,just one!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by wierdscience View Post
                So 4k psi x 2.236 = 8944lbs of force.So how much of a lever arm?

                My question would be,if 4k on that unit will bend 2x.250 wall DOM,what will the 10k pump do or will it break something?
                I'm wondering as well. From the description, and just based on putting one together, it seems like it could handle a lot, but no idea how much is too much:

                " the Model 32 utilizes extra large 1 1/4" diameter 100,000 PSI alloy pins to handle the tough bends. "

                I wonder what the mechanical advantage is after the Hydro ram too.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by wierdscience View Post
                  So 4k psi x 2.236 = 8944lbs of force.So how much of a lever arm?

                  My question would be,if 4k on that unit will bend 2x.250 wall DOM,what will the 10k pump do or will it break something?
                  I think it will also bend 2" solids. At least they say bending anything larger than 1" solid requires hydraulics, so maybe you need the 10K PSI pump to bend 2" solid rounds

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I just found this in the manual. I guess 4K PSI is the right size pump...

                    Recommended Cylinder:Power Team C1014C or Enerpac RC1014 or an equivalent cylinder. They are rated at 10 tons and have a 14" stroke. On the front of the cylinder is a 2 1/4" x 14 TPI thread.

                    Recommended Power Unit: We offer several hydraulic pumps suitable for the Model 32 Bender. However, any power unit may be used that has an output of at least 1500-4000 PSI. The average bending pressure will generally be below 1300 PSI. Tested examples: 1 3/4" x .095" mild steel - 900 PSI, 1 5/8" x .083" 4130 chrome moly - 1400 PSI, 1 1/2" solid round bar stock - 3100 PSI. If the bender is operated at a pressure higher than 4000 PSI the drive links and drive link pin have been designed to fail first in order to protect the more expensive frame links and provide the operator with a warning of overload. For safe reliable operation never operate the bender at pressures above 4000 PSI.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I looked and the Enerpac is rated to be able to use 10 000 psi.. same as a lot of Enerpac stuff.
                      So I am thinking, at 4000 psi it would be making 4 tons.. or ? .?

                      As far as I know tonnage is always expressed at a certain working pressure.
                      Last edited by 754; 01-03-2019, 07:52 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 3 Phase Lightbulb View Post
                        I think it will also bend 2" solids. At least they say bending anything larger than 1" solid requires hydraulics, so maybe you need the 10K PSI pump to bend 2" solid rounds
                        So with 4k giving you nearly 4-1/2 tons,a 10k pump would give you 22,360 or just over 11 tons.That's really not that much tonnage,so ya,it's doable,and given the radius of the larger dies we probably aren't talking much in the way of tonnage to bend even 2" solid.

                        You could always have the best of both worlds and do both.I got a couple of these Horrible Fright air over hydraulic pumps,they work just the same has the expensive ones and the 20 off coupon works too

                        https://www.harborfreight.com/10000-...ump-98318.html
                        I just need one more tool,just one!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by wierdscience View Post
                          So with 4k giving you nearly 4-1/2 tons,a 10k pump would give you 22,360 or just over 11 tons.That's really not that much tonnage,so ya,it's doable,and given the radius of the larger dies we probably aren't talking much in the way of tonnage to bend even 2" solid.

                          You could always have the best of both worlds and do both.I got a couple of these Horrible Fright air over hydraulic pumps,they work just the same has the expensive ones and the 20 off coupon works too

                          https://www.harborfreight.com/10000-...ump-98318.html
                          See post #10 above. I found in the manual that a 4K PSI pump is all that is needed. I guess air the powered 10K PSI pump they also offer probably has to be "adjusted" to limit output to ~4K PSI, or maybe they just state what the maximum size pipe is when using the 10K PSI pump. My JD2 pump arrives tomorrow so I'll find out what documentation comes with it. I couldn't find anything online at JD2's site for the 4K pump.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 3 Phase Lightbulb View Post
                            I have a 4000 PSI Hydraulic pump and a 10 ton hydraulic cylinder from JD2 for my pipe bender.

                            The manual for the 10 ton cylinder does not mention the diameter of the cylinder so is there some type of standard used to determine what the max PSI would be to provide the max 10T of force? I would expect the diameter/area of the cylinder to be one of the specifications provided but it doesn't seem to be. I would expect if the area of the cylinder was 1 square inch, then ~20,000 PSI would be the max PSI to lift 10T. If the area was 2 square inches then ~10,000 PSI would be needed to lift 10T, etc.

                            I guess I'm wondering why they match a 4K PSI pump with a 10T cylinder, unless it just happens that the 10T cylinder is the best fit and maybe is only being used/needed as a <= ~4 TON (assuming the cyl area is ~2 sq/in).

                            It seems to me, bending 2" DOM with 1/4" wall tubing might need more than 4 tons so I'm wondering if the 4K PSI pump is enough, but I still don't know what PSI correlates with the 10T cylinder, etc.
                            (PiR^2) of the piston * PSI = Total force. I'm sure somebody already answered, but if they haven't just remember that. It comes in handy all the time for hydraulic cylinders and air cylinders. If you need to know the back force on a dual acting cylinder subtract PiR^2 of the rod from PiR^2 of the piston and multiply that by PSI.
                            *** I always wanted a welding stinger that looked like the north end of a south bound chicken. Often my welds look like somebody pointed the wrong end of a chicken at the joint and squeezed until something came out. Might as well look the part.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 754 View Post
                              I looked and the Enerpac is rated to be able to use 10 000 psi.. same as a lot of Enerpac stuff.
                              So I am thinking, at 4000 psi it would be making 4 tons.. or ? .?

                              As far as I know tonnage is always expressed at a certain working pressure.
                              Here you go. Knock yourself out

                              https://www.harborfreight.com/16-ton...der-62669.html

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