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Quenching on Forged in Fire.

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  • Quenching on Forged in Fire.

    In my schooling we were taught to agitate when quenching, as far as I remember it.
    I suppose if you wanted to slow the quench rate, it may be a plan to hold it stationary.

    So what do you guys think ?
    Is there a reason , a benefit ? Or just saving the expense of a bigger tank ?

  • #2
    Agitation is done to prevent bubbles from forming on the surface of the metal that will interfere with the quench.
    The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

    Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

    Southwestern Ontario. Canada

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    • #3
      If the piece is big enough it can boil and produce enough bubbles or gases that it's not cooling the metal.
      Far as I know..

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      • #4
        I was also taught to agitate, BUT on a blade or any long thin piece, agitation can induce warping. On a blade you would agitate front to back, NOT side to side. Side to side could cool one side faster than the other can induce a warp. The most important is the initial plunge into the tank though IMO.

        On the other hand, there appears to be a lot of voodoo magic for blade quenching so who really knows.....

        I don't look to forged in fire for any shinning examples of proper technique for anything. I just take if for what it is at face value, entertainment, even though I havn't watched an episode in a long time. There's no denying it's driving the cost of anvils and blacksmithing equipment through the roof though. Really the only problem I have with the show.
        Last edited by Dan Dubeau; 04-07-2019, 08:22 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Dan Dubeau View Post
          I was also taught to agitate, BUT on a blade or any long thin piece, agitation can induce warping. On a blade you would agitate front to back, NOT side to side. Side to side could cool one side faster than the other can induce a warp. The most important is the initial plunge into the tank though IMO.
          This is what I've always heard as well, and how I do it myself. Although I typically edge quench with high carbon steel.

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          • #6
            I watched a knife making video years ago where the knife maker swore that the quince tank be a horizontal tank/trough positioned in alignment with the earths north and south magnetic poles. I think I understand his thoughts, but don't if there is any validity in his thoughts. Any one read or heard this before?
            _____________________________________________

            I would rather have tools that I never use, than not have a tool I need.
            Oregon Coast

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            • #7
              Originally posted by lugnut View Post
              I watched a knife making video years ago where the knife maker swore that the quince tank be a horizontal tank/trough positioned in alignment with the earths north and south magnetic poles. I think I understand his thoughts, but don't if there is any validity in his thoughts. Any one read or heard this before?
              Also, only quench on moonless nights and only on days with an "n" in their names. That's the magic formula.

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              • #8
                As Evan has said what you see in movies is BS.

                I used two slabs of one inch thick 6061 to harden knifes made of CPM10v. Harden temperature was 2150 F blade set on one slab second slab set on top with a 50 lb weight. Tempered at 1000 f for two hours, Rockwell C of 65. Made nice kitchen- meat cutters. These were not for cutting bolts and other assorted junk as on Forged in Fire.

                In a oil quench you move the blade straight up and down. Three inches is enough. Just do not remove from oil until cooled below 200 - 300 f.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by SLK001 View Post
                  Also, only quench on moonless nights and only on days with an "n" in their names. That's the magic formula.
                  I was hoping it might be something about the north and south pole alignment would help the molecular structure of the steel. But as you said it would work better on days with a "n" in their names.
                  Last edited by lugnut; 04-08-2019, 02:15 PM.
                  _____________________________________________

                  I would rather have tools that I never use, than not have a tool I need.
                  Oregon Coast

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                  • #10
                    Several years ago I designed a quench tank for an industrial heat treat shop. They had pumps to circulate the fluid so there was no need to agitate the parts.

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                    • #11
                      Rolling steel requires lots of quenching, high flow rates, steam will blanket slowing quench rate buggering the TTT you want, even liquid steel casting is often passed through a magnetic field to slow the vortices in the caster mould, called EM braking, does work well, mostly a not show area, not much patent info about but I can say busbars not cables, big magnetic field to control the crystal structure during solidification, so magnetic orientation sounds more than plausible.
                      I was taught to add lime to quench tanks, stops the scum, we dried ethylene glycol that helped too
                      Mark

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                      • #12
                        Magnetic treatments are also used to toughen some varieties of military armor steels. It is a scientifically proven method that has measurable effect on the alloy structure and properties. I've read a report regarding this technique....if I search I shall likely find it.
                        So it makes sense that there might be some effect in the placement of the quench tank with relation to earths magnetic field. Although I suspect it is far less potent than the hardening techniques performed in high intensity magnetic fields.

                        E.g. some information regarding heat treatments in strong magnetic fields:

                        https://web.ornl.gov/sci/manufacturi...-TC-Report.pdf
                        Last edited by markx; 04-08-2019, 08:41 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by markx View Post
                          Magnetic treatments are also used to toughen some varieties of military armor steels. It is a scientifically proven method that has measurable effect on the alloy structure and properties. I've read a report regarding this technique....if I search I shall likely find it.
                          So it makes sense that there might be some effect in the placement of the quench tank with relation to earths magnetic field. Although I suspect it is far less potent than the hardening techniques performed in high intensity magnetic fields.

                          E.g. some information regarding heat treatments in strong magnetic fields:

                          https://web.ornl.gov/sci/manufacturi...-TC-Report.pdf
                          4.8 Tesla field strength is indeed a far cry from earths magnetic field.
                          Bit more and even frogs float in the magnetic field..

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Illinoyance View Post
                            Several years ago I designed a quench tank for an industrial heat treat shop. They had pumps to circulate the fluid so there was no need to agitate the parts.
                            The company I worked for required a flow rate of the coolant of 1 meter/second across the parts. That is impinging on the parts, not flow somewhere in the tank. Plain carbon and alloy steel forgings ranging from 12-200 pounds. This meant no stacking or dumping of parts into the tank. They were placed on trays or hung from hooks in the austenizing furnace and into the quench. A severe quench like this translated directly to deep case depths and/or through hardening. Also it translates to a high chance of quench cracking.

                            We could never use full range chemistry from the steel mills. Low end of the heat would not achieve hardness and high end would quench crack. If you buy the whole heat you can spec mid range chemistry. Us mere mortals have to live with anything we get and never know the hardenability, sometimes not even the material. Now we have variability.

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