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  • Wood stove in shop

    Ok, I'm just about ready to start the install of a free standing wood stove in my shop.

    Got the ok from my insurance company. Have read and re-read the codes so I can make sure it is installed correctly. The stove is a new ansi/csa certified low clearance type, with triple wall stove pipe. Install should be fairly straight forward. Stove will sit in the corner, and it will be a straight shot up through the ceiling.

    I am a bit concerned about the work above the roof level. My eaves are at about 14', peak is about 17'. The stove pipe will come through the roof right at the eaves. The chimney pipes that go above roof level are pretty beefy, but my hope is I can do it without having to walk on the roof at all. I really don't like walking on the metal roof of a pole building if at all possible. There is not a lot of support under the metal sheeting.

    Is there any need to install any sort of hearth for the stove to sit on? It should just be able to sit directly on the concrete? I'm not concerned about looks, just function.

    Wayne

  • #2
    Directly on the concrete. Be sure to extend pipe at least 3 feet above the roof(not including terminal cap). If the stove does not have a blower, consider a small fan to pull air under the stove and discharge toward the wall behind the stove.

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    • #3
      My wood stove is in the basement. I set it on bricks under the legs to give it more clearance above the concrete floor. It doesn't get all that hot anyway, we used to have a black cat and he would sleep under the thing. I would pull him out of there and he would be too hot to touch. His name was Ashes. If you can, build a brick wall behind the stove, not so much for safety but for heat storage. Mine is right beside the foundation of my large three flue chimney. After burning all day that large mass of bricks stays warm and gives off lots of heat all night.
      Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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      • #4
        I installed a factory powdercoat oven..

        It did not have a floor... Now all the ones I have built have had.. this one sat directly on the concrete.

        Evidently heat rises.

        No clue..

        --

        [This message has been edited by ibewgypsie (edited 11-17-2005).]

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        • #5
          I am thinking of adding a wood stove in my garage too, and recently reread the rules contained in a Canadian government publication that outlines the technical requirements for proper installation. I installed a wood stove in my house 5-6 years ago and had to have it inspected by the insurance company, and they gave me the rule book that I am quoting.

          With respect to the floor, the rules state that the stove must sit on a non-combustible surface that extends 18" in front and 8" on either side of the stove. A concrete floor would fulfill this requirenment, so a protector is not required.


          I do see a potential problem with your chimney height. The rules for Canada state the chimney must extend 3' above the roof where is exits, but it must ALSO extend 2' above any structure that is within 10' (I may be off a bit as I do not have the book in front of me). My interpretation of this is that if you come out of the roof right near the side wall, you must extend the chimney quite abit more than 3' to comply with the 2'/10' rule. In other words, come out at the eave where you want the chimney to exit. Measure towards the peak 10' (imagine horizontally, not simply up the roof slope ). From this spot 10' away from the chimney, figure out how high above the chimney point you require to be level with the "10'-away-point", then add 2' to that. My guess for the proper height on a 4/12 pitch roof would be 40" of chimney height to get level with the 10' point, then another 24", for a total of 64" above the roof. A steeper pitch would require more height (6/12 pitch would need 60" + 24"). In that case you would probably want bracing so the chimney would not move. The reason for this 2'/10' rule is that strong winds coming up over your roof on the non-chimney side will tend to follow the surface of the roof over and down the chimney side, and if the chimney is too low the wind will push smoke back into the stove (unsafe!). By getting the chimney top 2' above any roofline that is 10' away, this is greatly reduced.

          I my case I plan to put the stove along the end wall and come up through the roof close to the peak, which will minimize the amount of chimney sticking out and reduce the need for bracing.

          Hope that helps somewhat.

          Michael

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          • #6
            Yup, you're right on the money Michael. I purchased the whole set-up from an outfit in Mission BC. I provided the measurements of the building and they designed the system.

            I have two 48" insulated chimney sections, most of that 8' of chimney will be sticking out above the roof where it exits. I also have a brace kit that is basically two struts that come down from the chimney and bolt to the building. That's why I mentioned that my biggest installation concern is with the two chimney pieces. These insulated units are fairly heavy.

            Because I will be installing the stove in a corner, I can have two ladders, one on each side of the corner. Then two people can wrestle those chimney sections up. I think we can set the first 48" section in the hole, and probably the second 48" section as well. The struts will be hanging loosely off the top section until the lower end of the strut is fastened to the building. What I'm not sure about, is whether I can tighten the fasteners on the chimney end of the struts while we are on the ladders (without getting on the roof). We will have to size it up when we get to that point.

            For the inside I'm using 4" double wall close clearance black pipe. This stuff has a heat shield on the back side of the pipe. I speced the stove and pipe to allow for the closest positioning to the wall. No sense in having the stove sticking out 6' from the wall taking up valuable floor space.

            Wayne

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            • #7
              Wayne,question,have you seen the forced air flue inserts?I have a nieghbor that swears by his,says he cut his wood comsumption in half buy using them.It looks like a section of flue pipe with a shroud and blower,any thoughts on them?

              For the wall behind a woodstove the county recommends a triple thick layer of cement board on the wall,and a tile skirt infront of the hearth here.
              I just need one more tool,just one!

              Comment


              • #8
                Wayne:

                The support kit sounds like the same one I installed on my chimney. If it is a Selkirk chimney, should be similar. The band that goes around the chimney has 2 tangs that the upper end of the support rod bolts to. You should be able to completely tigthen the band clamp while the pipe is on the gorund, and attach the upper ends of the rods to the tangs. I think if you tighten the rod-to-band bolts tight but not excessive, you should be able to pivot the rods slightly to line up with the roof bases with having to touch the upper bolts again once it is on the roof. As long as you can tighten the adjusting bolt in the centre of the telescopic section you should be good.

                One other thing to note if you are using the Selkirk chimney, is the snap on band that connect the sections together. The instructions say all you have to do is stack the pipe sections together making sure the 2" extension of the next pipe fits properly into the pipe below, then install the retaining band and clip into place. I found the bands on mine fit OK but not as tight as I would like. There are 2 or 3 small holes drilled around this band to allow you to screw the band to the chimney casing, in case this is a concern. I screwed all mine using #6 x 5/8" sheet metal screws. Gave me peace of mind...

                With respect to the double wall stove pipe, I am using one on my wood stove in the house too, as I needed the 9" clearance it provides compared to the 18" without it. The advantages of using one (besides the decrease in clearance) are a stronger draft due to a hotter chimney, and less creosote buildup (and therefore less frequent sweeping required) due to a hot chimney. Downside is a large amount of heat that could help heat the room goes up the chimney instead, and you cannot use a magnetic flue temperature gauge on this type of pipe since it can't read the internal temperature. I'm a fan of a clean chimney and no chimney fires, so it works for me!

                Michael

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                • #9
                  <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mrennie:
                  Wayne:

                  The support kit sounds like the same one I installed on my chimney. If it is a Selkirk chimney, should be similar. The band that goes around the chimney has 2 tangs that the upper end of the support rod bolts to. You should be able to completely tigthen the band clamp while the pipe is on the gorund, and attach the upper ends of the rods to the tangs. I think if you tighten the rod-to-band bolts tight but not excessive, you should be able to pivot the rods slightly to line up with the roof bases with having to touch the upper bolts again once it is on the roof. As long as you can tighten the adjusting bolt in the centre of the telescopic section you should be good.
                  </font>
                  That was a good tip Michael, thanks. My father in-law and I got this beast installed finally. At first I attempted to carry the two assembled 4' sections of insulated chimney, with the struts attached, up the ladder to install them at one time. I got about 1/4 of the way up the ladder and realized I could not pull it off. I ended up putting up the first 4' section off the top of the extension ladder, then the top 4' section with struts attached. It worked ok, but I'm not a big fan of hanging off the top of a tall extension ladder trying to wrestle a heavy object to the vertical position, and dropping it into the hole. My father in-law was on a second ladder and used one of the struts to steady it a bit.

                  I don't think I have the struts mounted in the right place on the roof. The instructions call for 45 degrees of angle and I don't think I have that much. I'm to chicken to crawl up that high towards the peak of this roof to mount them up that far. I wouldn't mind it so much if it was a regular supported roof. But these pole buildings only have the purlins that support the metal roofing sheets every 2 foot or so. If I'm on the roof I have to have my knees over one purlin, and my hands on another to support my weight. At any rate, the struts do have some angle to them and the chimney is triangulated such that it seams very secure. There is only 8' of chimney that needs supporting and I think it will be ok as is.

                  Still getting used to these, "certified", high efficiency stoves. The outside dimensions of the stove are large, but the actual fire box is rather small. There is no direct path from the fire to the flue for the smoke to travel. The bottom, sides, and top are enclosed in fire brick, and there is a ceramic blanket on top of the upper firebricks (between the bricks and the flue opening). The smoke/gasses are supposed to travel towards the door, then wrap up and over the bricks/blanket and out the flue.

                  This has presented a bit of a problem for starting the stove when it is cold as the smoke likes to take the path of least resistance, which is out the door and into the room. It is difficult to get a draft going in the stove pipe when cold. With the old stoves you could leave the door cracked open for a bit while the draft built up. Trying that with this stove results in a room full of smoke. Yes, I had the damper fully open. No, I don't "think" there was negative pressure in the room (I had the big roll-up door open).

                  Once it gets going though, it burns like a son of a gun. Stove thermometer seems to level out at about 400 - 475 degrees. Seems like it takes a different mindset for these stoves. I'm used to throwing on a couple pieces of large wood frequently. Doing that with this stove results in mega fire coming out the opening when you attempt to put too many logs in, during the rush of oxygen with the door open. It does seem to burn quite awhile on load of fuel. It seems to want small loads, less frequently. You sure can see the gasses swirling around in there during the burn.

                  The 14 feet of stove pipe throws off quite a bit of heat as well. While it is listed as double wall, close clearance pipe. It is really just double walled on the back of the pipe. Single wall pipe with a heat shield on the back essentially.

                  I'm also a bit surprised on how warm the sheetrock behind the stove is getting. It is not too hot to touch by any means, but it is warm. I have the stove and pipe set at the required set-back distances. I'm wondering if that white painted sheetrock wall will eventually discolor from the heat. At any rate, the wall hasn't spontaneously combusted yet, so that's a good thing.

                  Hope I can get this start-up / reloading process ironed out so that there is less smoke into the room. The stove will be started cold very frequently, as I usually only work out in the shop on the weekends. I will find out tonight if it will hold a fire overnight.

                  Wayne

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                  • #10
                    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by wierdscience:
                    Wayne,question,have you seen the forced air flue inserts?I have a nieghbor that swears by his,says he cut his wood comsumption in half buy using them.It looks like a section of flue pipe with a shroud and blower,any thoughts on them?
                    </font>
                    You mean like this one?
                    http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...egoryId=155624

                    I have not tried these. This one would present a problem in my situation, in that it requires 18" to the wall, and I'm at 11".
                    Looks like it might be a good addition to the older type stoves though.

                    Wayne

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Wayne,
                      I used to have the same problem with my old wood stove, the smoke would come in the room on start up. I found that by holding a burning rolled up newspaper up in the flue area, it would heat up the air and start the draft. Then I could fire up the wood and shut the door.
                      Bob

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Wayne, it sounds like you stove is built like mine and it does the same thing about smoking when lighting a fire. I believe this is normal for the reasons you noted. Also the outside air is usualy colder than in your building so there is pressure comming down the flue. My stove is in my house and I have to light it everyday, living in the desert only the nights are cold. You will soon learn how to get your stove going and what the preferred method of getting the fire going without getting smoked out. I usualy tear up a couple grocery bags, {tell your wife to ask for the paper bags from now on} and then put a big handfull of tree trimmings which are the size of a pencil on the bags and then some bigger sticks on that. Start the fire and close the door, no smoke. After these get going good and the chimney is warm, it shouldn't smoke when you open the door.
                        Michael

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                        • #13
                          Off topic for your jobs now but:

                          Old rail road stations used to run the coal fired stove pipe considerable distance inside the room. Intent was to use all the heat. Seen them many times. But, keep in mind , the locomotives at that time were steam fired and the coal was probably good quality (less tars and sulfur). I Think some stoves were installed near a wall and used out side air to burn the fuel. Lots more efficient to take in out side air to burn. My mental pictures of rail road stations have the stove on the middle of the room so maybe the inside air was used. Those old rail roads (in days before tax laws encouraged waste (by letting expenditures go untaxed) the companies pulled every BTU from men, machines and money).

                          So far as working on "tin roof" with wide purling, we used to lay a ladder on the roof and work on the ladder- it kept (or spread) the load. On real steep roofs, the ladder provided hand holds. A couple short 1x4's nailed to end of ladder, hooked over the ridge kept the ladder from sliding down (very disconcerting to have ladder move even inches when the roof edge was 125 feet above the ground. The roof ridge is almost always strong enough to bear a mans weight so the rigging was done by getting on the roof. I have been told the near the roof peak, the better the draft, because the air is moving up when wind is blowing anyway except straight down the ridge line.

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