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  • Collet Chuck's? Closers?

    I'm leaning towards buying a 5mt to 5C collet sleave, and fabricating a draw tube and closer, but interested in those ER40 Chuck's that mount directly into my D1-4 spindle.
    Main purpose is to turn axles on model trains. Could simply just use the 4 jaw or the 3 jaw with machined softjaws. I just want very low run out and quick mounting.


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  • #2
    Originally posted by RB211 View Post
    I'm leaning towards buying a 5mt to 5C collet sleave, and fabricating a draw tube and closer, but interested in those ER40 Chuck's that mount directly into my D1-4 spindle.
    Main purpose is to turn axles on model trains. Could simply just use the 4 jaw or the 3 jaw with machined softjaws. I just want very low run out and quick mounting.


    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
    You do realize why collet chucks were invented correct?

    Speed, do you produce 50-100 model train axles per day 5 days per week 50 weeks per year? If so a collet chuck and closer can not be beat.
    If not buy a stand alone collet chuck that will fit in your 4 jaw and can be dialed in when needed, Kalamazoo makes an excellent product, http://www.penntoolco.com/kalamazoo-...yABEgK1V_D_BwE
    They are also dead length which you will not achieve with a back closer.

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    • #3
      the more I use collets, the more I like them,
      lately I been using collets for common size drills, starter drills, etc.
      they are shorter than a chuck, less overhang, less runout.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by RB211 View Post
        I'm leaning towards buying a 5mt to 5C collet sleave, and fabricating a draw tube and closer, but interested in those ER40 Chuck's that mount directly into my D1-4 spindle.
        Go the 5c route. Given the choice, split collets are better for work holding.
        in Toronto Ontario - where are you?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Bented View Post
          You do realize why collet chucks were invented correct?

          Speed, do you produce 50-100 model train axles per day 5 days per week 50 weeks per year? If so a collet chuck and closer can not be beat.
          If not buy a stand alone collet chuck that will fit in your 4 jaw and can be dialed in when needed, Kalamazoo makes an excellent product, http://www.penntoolco.com/kalamazoo-...yABEgK1V_D_BwE
          They are also dead length which you will not achieve with a back closer.
          I like that way of thinking, however I plan on some rather small scale stuff and the thought of spinning my 8" 4jaw close to 4000 rpm if need be doesn't sit well, that's where the collet closer is nice.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by RB211 View Post
            I'm leaning towards buying a 5mt to 5C collet sleave, and fabricating a draw tube and closer, but interested in those ER40 Chuck's that mount directly into my D1-4 spindle.
            Collets are the bee's knees for holding small parts without having to dial them in.

            ER-40 collets range in size from 0.094 to 1.024 inches. You might find you need to hold something smaller than 0.094 - in which case, you might want to look at ER-32 collets instead (holds down to 0.020") or ER-20 collets (holds down to 0.015").

            5C collets range in size from 1/64th of an inch (or even smaller with a collet blank you drill/ream out) to 1.125". You can get 5C collet sets that take 1/8th inch steps, 1/16th steps, 1/32nd steps and 1/64th steps. You will find that your prices go up dramatically as you get into the smaller increment collet sets. I bought a Lyndex 1/32nd 5C collet set for my shop years ago, and it cost me over $600. Today, I've seen the same sort of set go for over $1K. Good quality 5C collet sets (Lyndex, Hardinge, etc) cost money.

            5C collets can provide you two things that ER-type collets cannot:

            - you can get 5C collets to work on hex, square or round parts
            - you can get "blank" 5C collets that you can drill/broach for whatever you want.

            ER-style collets give you a wider range of gripping sizes for each collet because they are a "parallel" closing style collet. The 5C is not. For 5C collets, it is important that you don't tighten them down on something too small, because you can 'spring' the collet and it won't hold the part properly.

            ER collets are primarily a tool-holding collet, whereas the 5C collet is used much more for workholding. There are 5C collet blocks which are very useful when milling a round part in a mill vise to quickly index the part over four or size side. There are 5C collet fixtures for grinders, lathes, etc. They're a good collet set to have for general manual machine shop work - but you'll spend more for a full set of 5C collets.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post
              Go the 5c route. Given the choice, split collets are better for work holding.
              And go the direct spindle mount route, bolted to a backplate.
              5MT sleeve and you are straight away limiting options, ie no long pieces through the spindle etc.
              These days, if possible, spindle sleeve collet chucks belong on a mill only.

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              • #8
                Alright then, how about one of these Gator chucks? Made by Fuerda?
                https://www.ajaxtoolsupply.com/ga5cadtruset1.html

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                • #9
                  That what I'd get if it didn't already have a Royal closer.

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                  • #10
                    It’s settled then, I’ll get that chuck when I start to machine a lot of axles.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by thaiguzzi View Post
                      And go the direct spindle mount route, bolted to a backplate.
                      5MT sleeve and you are straight away limiting options, ie no long pieces through the spindle etc.
                      These days, if possible, spindle sleeve collet chucks belong on a mill only.
                      I'm not familiar with the adapter RB's looking at, but I was thinking it would be like one I had. It was a Standard Modern with a 4 1/2 MT taper spindle and adapter and it didn't impede the bore at all. The adapter went in nose tape and the collet closed with with a hollow drawbar (not a lever action closer, just a plain old drawbar with a thrust bearing). I always thought it the best arrangement, zero overhang and as accurate as the adapter could be made, it was best collet arrangement I've had except maybe for the direct to spindle system you get with small lathes
                      in Toronto Ontario - where are you?

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                      • #12
                        Agree with Mcgyver.

                        My lathe came with the 5MT-5C adapter and draw tube, as well as 5C collets in 1/16" increments. It's very rigid, handy and cheap, and certainly not that slow, especially compared to dialing in a 4-jaw for every part. The cost of the collets will be carried over if you upgrade later, but it's still an upfront cost, so I wouldn't hesitate to use this as a starter setup. There are quite a few complaints about runout with the cheaper collet chucks, which are still not cheap.

                        The adapter/drawbar setup does cover the outboard end spindle threads so I cannot use my spider to handle long lengths, but for production type stuff you'll always get to the point where you have a foot or more of material inside the spindle flopping around which is also not ideal for collet sized stuff anyway and requires addressing for a production environment.This could easily be overcome with some creativity though. I don't do production so I tend to just cut the individual pieces in the bandsaw, or perhaps use a 6" length of material at a time for short pieces.

                        My spindle is threaded so the adapter is removed by a un-threading a nose protector that goes on before the adapter is installed, I'm not sure what the typical setup is for a camlock spindle.
                        Last edited by JCByrd24; 06-18-2019, 09:33 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JCByrd24 View Post

                          My spindle is threaded so the adapter is removed by a un-threading a nose protector that goes on before the adapter is installed, I'm not sure what the typical setup is for a camlock spindle.
                          Mine was a D1-3. The adapter was just like a headstock centre adapter, say Mt5 to MT2, but instead of MT2 it fit 5C's. Removal was the same way as any adapter - a knock out bar with a bit of brass on the end

                          Here, managed to find a photo. simple and great performance, should have never sold that lathe

                          in Toronto Ontario - where are you?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post
                            Mine was a D1-3. The adapter was just like a headstock centre adapter, say Mt5 to MT2, but instead of MT2 it fit 5C's. Removal was the same way as any adapter - a knock out bar with a bit of brass on the end
                            Ah that makes sense, thanks! My lathe actually came with a very crude knock out bar that didn't fit the adapter well and had no brass on the end. After a few uses it didn't seem like the right solution so I did some research and found the threaded nose guard was used for this service so I made one. This saves the shock on the spindle bearings but loads up the back gears. I hadn't thought of the need to knock out centers as well, as my lathe didn't come with any and I haven't had the need to purchase them for the spindle, I just turn one in the three jaw.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bented View Post
                              You do realize why collet chucks were invented correct?

                              Speed, do you produce 50-100 model train axles per day 5 days per week 50 weeks per year? If so a collet chuck and closer can not be beat.
                              The first collet chucks (wire chucks as Cataract called them) were an outgrowth of watchmaker's
                              lathes. They existed long before patents were even a thing. The were used to hold and support
                              small diameter workpieces. Your assertion that they were originally invented for speed is void
                              of validation.

                              -Doozer
                              DZER

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