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Is their anything stronger than steel in the "real world "

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  • Is their anything stronger than steel in the "real world "

    There seems to be an endless parade of new materials that are "stronger " than steel weight.In my world ,I use a lot of 3/8 and 1/2 inch screws. As a direct replacement,is anything stronger than steel? Edwin Dirnbeck

  • #2
    Certainly there are stronger materials than steel. But, mostly they are not cost effective for home shop use.

    And it depends on what your idea of strength is. Steel is more flexible than granite. Granite is heavier, harder to machine.
    Carbonfiber can be almost anything the designers want it to be. Except cheaper than steel.
    Titanium and aluminum alloys are stronger, lighter and machinable. Again, not cheap and difficult to weld.

    Use the material that works for your application and be happy with it.

    Mike

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    • #3
      So you have exceeded the strength capabilities of Grade 8 bolts, nuts and studs? I find that a bit hard to believe.

      Plus as discussed in other threads recently about threaded fasteners it's not always the fastener itself. The substrate also needs to be strong enough to avoid the threads being pulled out from a threaded part or the head directly pulling through the material being fastened. With this in mind do you really need stronger bolts?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Edwin Dirnbeck View Post
        There seems to be an endless parade of new materials that are "stronger " than steel weight.In my world ,I use a lot of 3/8 and 1/2 inch screws. As a direct replacement,is anything stronger than steel? Edwin Dirnbeck
        As an example McMaster sells titanium bolts. A 3/8-16 x 1 has a tensile strength of 130,000 lbs. They are considerably stronger than the same size grade 2 or grade 5 steel bolts, but not as strong as grade 8 steel bolts.

        There is however a considerable difference in cost. Grade 2 bolts sell for $11.06 for a pack of 100, grade 5's sell for $13.53 for a pack of 50, and the grade 8's sell for $8.15 for a pack of 25. The titanium bolts on the other hand are $6.95 each. While the titanium bolts exceed the strength of the grade 2's and 5's they are not cost effective for most applications.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by projectnut View Post
          As an example McMaster sells titanium bolts. A 3/8-16 x 1 has a tensile strength of 130,000 lbs. They are considerably stronger than the same size grade 2 or grade 5 steel bolts, but not as strong as grade 8 steel bolts.

          There is however a considerable difference in cost. Grade 2 bolts sell for $11.06 for a pack of 100, grade 5's sell for $13.53 for a pack of 50, and the grade 8's sell for $8.15 for a pack of 25. The titanium bolts on the other hand are $6.95 each. While the titanium bolts exceed the strength of the grade 2's and 5's they are not cost effective for most applications.
          Aermet 100 and maraging 350 bolts are ”available” if you have enough thick wallet but they are not really replacement for steel as they are something like 100 to 1000x more expensive. But they have 300 to 350 ksi tensile strenght when needed..

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          • #6
            Most everything that is "stronger than steel" comes with an asterisk..... there are always special conditions that apply.

            Perhaps it is only "stronger than steel" in the sense that the same weight of it has a higher ultimate tensile strength, or the like. If it has higher tensile strength, it may not be possible to use in the same was as steel, or it lacks compressive strength, etc, etc.

            As a rule, you cannot make a bolt out of it that is the same size as the steel one, and have it be stronger than the steel one, which is the first sort of idea that comes to mind when something is said to be "stronger than steel".

            "Direct replacement" would be mostly limited to the specialty aerospace stuff as per Mattij. And most of those are some form of steel.
            1601

            Keep eye on ball.
            Hashim Khan

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            • #7
              My firm used to machine pins out of ultra high tensile steel, 550000lbs/ square inch, not the average real world stuff, but part of the landing gear of Airbus planes. No titanium alloys could even sniff at it.

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              • #8
                If you need stronger bolts than top grade Allen head cap screws,
                the some engineering might need to be done. Sounds like something
                in the design is not right.

                --Doozer
                DZER

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                • #9
                  Stronger than steel- there are a lot of materials that are 'stronger than steel' in terms of tensile strength. But for a fastener with threads it has to be a homogeneous material with strength in all directions. That would mean an alloy of some kind and not a composite where the binder is weaker than the fibers. I can just see the carbon fiber bolt with the threads stripped off- but the shank still being stronger than the steel equivalent. And in this case, if you were able to make the carbon fiber bolt without any binder, what would you have- a diamond? I'd like to see how a diamond bolt would work-
                  I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MikeL46 View Post
                    Certainly there are stronger materials than steel. But, mostly they are not cost effective for home shop use.

                    And it depends on what your idea of strength is. Steel is more flexible than granite. Granite is heavier, harder to machine.
                    Carbonfiber can be almost anything the designers want it to be. Except cheaper than steel.
                    Titanium and aluminum alloys are stronger, lighter and machinable. Again, not cheap and difficult to weld.

                    Use the material that works for your application and be happy with it.

                    Mike
                    Just a small niggle:- steel is almost three times the density of granite. I find this useful when using my granite straight edges.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Doozer View Post
                      If you need stronger bolts than top grade Allen head cap screws,
                      the some engineering might need to be done. Sounds like something
                      in the design is not right.

                      --Doozer
                      I assumed he was asking for educational purposes, not because he actually needed a stronger screw. I think we are all aware of marketing claims that say a particular material is "x times stronger than steel!". Of course, there are always caveats. Perhaps is stronger per pound or stronger in tension but also more brittle or etc.

                      Kevlar is one such material. Interestingly, Kevlar was introduced in the climbing market because it was so strong and light. However, climbers quickly discovered some detractors: it has very poor fatigue performance and it is difficult to tie a good knot. They still sell technical cords and sling based on aramid fibers but, in many cases, nylon or steel cable is better, even though the initial tensile strength of both of those materials is lower. They have much better fatigue properties and, in the case of steel, better resistance to abrasion.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MikeL46 View Post
                        Certainly there are stronger materials than steel. But, mostly they are not cost effective for home shop use.

                        And it depends on what your idea of strength is. Steel is more flexible than granite. Granite is heavier, harder to machine.
                        Carbonfiber can be almost anything the designers want it to be. Except cheaper than steel.
                        Titanium and aluminum alloys are stronger, lighter and machinable. Again, not cheap and difficult to weld.

                        Use the material that works for your application and be happy with it.

                        Mike
                        My question is about DIRECT REPLACMENT FOR 3/8 AND 1/2 INCH BOLTS. This obviously means involves tensile strength.Granite 20,000 psi isn't even close.Carbonfiber bolts seem to be about 60,000 psi .The best aluminum and titanium is about 2/3 the strength of the best steel. Once again ,I am talking about a size for size direct replacement. As for as using the best material and being happy ,that isn't an option and why I am on this forum. Edwin Dirnbeck

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BCRider View Post
                          So you have exceeded the strength capabilities of Grade 8 bolts, nuts and studs? I find that a bit hard to believe.

                          Plus as discussed in other threads recently about threaded fasteners it's not always the fastener itself. The substrate also needs to be strong enough to avoid the threads being pulled out from a threaded part or the head directly pulling through the material being fastened. With this in mind do you really need stronger bolts?
                          YES I DO.Edwin Dirnbeck

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by projectnut View Post
                            As an example McMaster sells titanium bolts. A 3/8-16 x 1 has a tensile strength of 130,000 lbs. They are considerably stronger than the same size grade 2 or grade 5 steel bolts, but not as strong as grade 8 steel bolts.

                            There is however a considerable difference in cost. Grade 2 bolts sell for $11.06 for a pack of 100, grade 5's sell for $13.53 for a pack of 50, and the grade 8's sell for $8.15 for a pack of 25. The titanium bolts on the other hand are $6.95 each. While the titanium bolts exceed the strength of the grade 2's and 5's they are not cost effective for most applications.
                            Yes, this confirms my post.Most people would say titanium is stronger than steel.Simply put,by weight it is but not by volume.Edwin Dirnbeck

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It is impossible to help with your problem without knowing more about the application or the mode of failure of your fasteners.. The practical fasteners for almost all purposes is limited to steel bolts, grades 2 though 8 and socket cap screws. There are super alloys available from which studs and nuts could be made but cost would likely be prohibitive. With high strength materials the yield point becomes closer to the ultimate strength so these high strength fasteners will have less reserve strength than more common fasteners.

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