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O/T: Plumbing help. One inch gate valve or a ball valve.

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  • O/T: Plumbing help. One inch gate valve or a ball valve.

    I have not had great results with either.

    The 1" ball valve for my watering hose in the front yard needed an extension made, yeah, by me (machining content!!) just to turn it.

    The back yard is also on this 80psi main 1" line. It is a gate valve. I have to replac it, its is seeping.

    Anyway. Gate or Ball? Please. Thank you. JR
    My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

  • #2
    Ball.

    Comment


    • #3
      AIUI, a gate valve presents the least impediment to fluid flow, so is ideal for a main valve. But it may not shut off completely.

      OTOH, a globe valve has a rubber washer and a seat, so it should shut off completely, and can be repaired. But it changes the direction of flow and may be more restrictive.

      A ball valve might need to be accurately machined to avoid leakage.

      I haven't had any real problems with any of these. If it's too hard to turn, the packing might be too tight or deteriorated, and possibly could be lubricated.

      http://www.valtorc.com/valve-news/wh...nd-globe-valve

      Last edited by PStechPaul; 06-28-2019, 01:33 AM. Reason: link
      http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png

      Paul: www.peschoen.com
      P S Technology, Inc. www.pstech-inc.com
      and Muttley www.muttleydog.com

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      • #4
        A good industry grade SS ball valve will last a lifetime. Cheap ball valves often are operated by a slot on the ball and brass "screwdriver" on the handle shaft and will break after a long time without handling.
        Helder Ferreira
        SetŮ’bal, Portugal

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by PStechPaul View Post
          ...AIUI (????) , a gate valve presents the least impediment to fluid flow, so is ideal for a main valve...
          A ball valve is full-flow as well--better as far as I'm concerned. I'd take a good ball valve over a gate valve any day...
          Keith
          __________________________
          Just one project too many--that's what finally got him...

          Comment


          • #6
            My 2 cents. Even with a 125 psi rating, 80 psi is a bit high for common off the shelf home owner valves. I would put in a pressure reducer and get that back down to 50-60 psi. I believe gate valves are rated to leak a certain amount. You could also step up to a true union ball valve, the kind that are repairable($$$). As mentioned above a commercial grade brass/stainless 1/4 turn ball valve with adjustable packing should last. I have a couple of buckets of each given to me, they are a bit clunky and hard to turn(!) but they do not leak.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Abner View Post
              My 2 cents. Even with a 125 psi rating, 80 psi is a bit high for common off the shelf home owner valves. I would put in a pressure reducer and get that back down to 50-60 psi. I believe gate valves are rated to leak a certain amount. You could also step up to a true union ball valve, the kind that are repairable($$$). As mentioned above a commercial grade brass/stainless 1/4 turn ball valve with adjustable packing should last. I have a couple of buckets of each given to me, they are a bit clunky and hard to turn(!) but they do not leak.
              Not sure what you have available in your neck of woods but here "home despot/harbor freight" seem to sell brass valves with 20bar (290psi) working pressure and SS316 valves with 63bar (900psi) working pressure.
              (Actual burst pressures are probably minimum 4 times of the above if these go along same lines with other pipe products.)

              Comment


              • #8
                Any valve will seal if it's made well and the water is clean. Lime deposits can flake off from the exiting system and interfere with any valve.
                Industrially we used 3 piece ball valves, the ones with the flanges on the pipe and o-ring flange seals. They had the advantage of quick replacement when they fail. All valves will fail eventually.

                The gate vales are inherently full port, ball valves are available with conventional port or full port and globe valves are the most restrictive but the easiest to repair. If you can get enough flow from the globe valve, go ahead and use it.

                Avoid the Chicom valves in general. Watts, Milwaukee, Nibco, Mueller or Toyo are good brands. Valves made in Italy were good too, I just don't remember the brand. You pretty much get what you pay for...

                Like any piece of moving equipment, valves will work more reliable and last longer if you 'exercise' them once in a while. When you operate them from full open to off always have the water flowing through them to flush out deposits that you will flake off when they close. If this is successful you will see the valve handle turn a few degrees more every cycle.

                Never force them closed. If they don't hold when off, reopen the valve a bit and close it again. If you have deposit's preventing the valve from holding water,the cyclic opening and closing will break up the deposits and the running water will flush the junk out. Forcing any valve in an effort to get it to hold will damage it or in the case of a gate valve may lock the wedge in the bottom of the gateway... If you stick one you are in for a wild repair ride. The only use for a wrench is to replace them valve, never to close it.
                paul
                ARS W9PCS

                Esto Vigilans

                Remember, just because you can doesn't mean you should...
                but you may have to

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by LKeithR View Post
                  A ball valve is full-flow as well--better as far as I'm concerned. I'd take a good ball valve over a gate valve any day...
                  Agree.

                  At least as long as the valve size is suitable for the piping, but that applies to any valve type. It would seem that a decent ball valve should actually be the best flowing valve type, as it continues the round pipe, with the minimum amount of side cavities and so forth that cause flow problems. Gate valve next, and old-fashioned globe valves a distant third, due to the complex flow inside an in-line valve (90 deg angle valves may be better).
                  1601

                  Keep eye on ball.
                  Hashim Khan

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Strictly my opinion: Gate valves are evil.

                    You cannot tell by looking at it whether a gate valve is closed or open, or not quite closed because something got stuck in it. You can't tell that the handle is unable to turn because it is jammed/frozen, or because it it already fully open. I put gate valves in the category of "it seemed like a good idea at the time". Now that the technology is available to produce a good ball valve, I can't think of a situation in which I would use a gate valve one in preference to a ball valve.
                    "A machinist's (WHAP!) best friend (WHAP! WHAP!) is his hammer. (WHAP!)" - Fred Tanner, foreman, Lunenburg Foundry and Engineering machine shop, circa 1979

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I replaced the two gate valves on my outdoor lines with ball valves. Smartest thing I've done in a while.
                      Love the half-turn to full pressure.
                      And NO LEAKS!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Another vote for a good quality ball valve, I've had zero issues with them.

                        Like Paul (ironmonger) mentioned, exercising any valve will pay huge dividends in regards to averting trouble down the road. In critical installations it is actually a requirement of routine maintenance and inspections to do so as per the schedule that is laid out for the particular application.
                        It's always the valve that hasn't been used for many months/years that won't open or close properly or leaks at the packing.
                        Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                        Bad Decisions Make Good Stories

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Gate valves are not for regulation but should be fully open or fully closed.
                          Fluid passing by a partially open gate valve beats the hell out of the seat faces.
                          Ball & globe to regulate.
                          Len

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mickeyf View Post
                            Strictly my opinion: Gate valves are evil.

                            You cannot tell by looking at it whether a gate valve is closed or open,
                            Many gate valves are of the 'rising' stem or OS&Y pattern, quite easy to see.

                            or not quite closed because something got stuck in it. You can't tell that the handle is unable to turn because it is jammed/frozen, or because it it already fully open.
                            Not really.

                            Whether it's a rising or non-rising stem, plumbers will often back the handle up 1/4 to 1/2 turn from the fully operated position. This rotation does not move any valve parts, it is the clearance in the threads. This allows a small amount of rotation before the end of travel is reached to ascertain if the problem rotating the stem is in the packing or a stuck gate. When servicing a crusty old valve I will loosen the packing nut to ease the force that is required to turn the stem, if required. If the stem will not turn you would be wise to arrange for a shutdown and have all the required repair/replacement parts on hand before proceeding. How much force to apply is not a science but is the product of bad experiences :>)

                            While not all valves open counterclockwise 99.44% of them do. A very few water utilities used clockwise opening valves. We always guessed that this was because the RH threads were cheaper in 1908 or whenever they started using them... really no idea and no one is still alive to tell us :>)

                            Besides, it should be obvious if the valve is on or not... whatever it serves will have working fluid preset down stream or not. I would guess that the normal position many valves would be on. If it is off, I would surmise that this valve is in use pretty regularly, and the complaint would failure to seal. Certainly examining the system would make its position pretty clear.

                            I put gate valves in the category of "it seemed like a good idea at the time". Now that the technology is available to produce a good ball valve, I can't think of a situation in which I would use a gate valve one in preference to a ball valve.
                            Did you ever price a 6" ball valve?

                            Ball valves have their own problems. When they are not operated for many years, they are often impossible to operate. And if the original contract allowed the 2 piece ball valves which are markedly cheaper and would have been used if allowed for that reason, the repair is expensive. The 2 piece ball valves are often damaged during installation by unskilled and unknowing installers...

                            Additionally ball valves are available in conventional port (less than pipe ID) and full port, which is near enough to the nominal pipe ID size.

                            Honor thy Plumber
                            paul
                            ARS W9PCS

                            Esto Vigilans

                            Remember, just because you can doesn't mean you should...
                            but you may have to

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yeah? Seeing some of your advice and I like it. Thank you very much. JR

                              I am going to replace both valves while I have the water turned off. Work fast I guess. JR
                              Last edited by JRouche; 06-29-2019, 02:18 AM.
                              My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

                              https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

                              Comment

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