Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

A question about steel automobile wheels

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • A question about steel automobile wheels

    HELP,I am working on an invention for mounting wheels on cars and trailers. Is their any agreed upon actual thru hole size for the wheel studs.As an example,my 16 inch trailer has 1/2 20 studs . My wheels have a .600 .615 thru holes. The wheels locate on a taper on the lug nuts,so the actual thru hole is clearance only.Is it whatever some manufacturer thinks is OK ?.Or ere there standards? Thank you Edwin Dirnbeck

  • #2
    Most of the old lay-down tire machines (Coates
    and the like) used a tapered pin that came up
    and went into one lug hole.

    -Doozer
    DZER

    Comment


    • #3
      There are variations. Many GM vehicles have 7/16” studs while others in their product line have 1/2”. There’s also 12mm & 14mm studs on the imports as well. There is clearance for the stud to pass through and the lug nut is tapered to match a taper on the contact area of the rim to center the wheel on the hub. The center hole of the rim usually fits very closely to the hub as a more positive method to make sure the wheel is in fact centered other than by the lug nut only.

      Comment


      • #4
        And even the center hole varies.

        Forgot: Even my 6" and 12" rims have 1/2-20 studs. I don't think wheel size has anything to do with it.
        Last edited by CCWKen; 07-06-2019, 12:08 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't have access, but I'm guessing this would cover it: https://www.sae.org/standards/content/j694_199808/

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Edwin Dirnbeck View Post
            HELP,I am working on an invention for mounting wheels on cars and trailers. Is their any agreed upon actual thru hole size for the wheel studs.As an example,my 16 inch trailer has 1/2 20 studs . My wheels have a .600 .615 thru holes. The wheels locate on a taper on the lug nuts,so the actual thru hole is clearance only.Is it whatever some manufacturer thinks is OK ?.Or ere there standards? Thank you Edwin Dirnbeck
            I don't believe that there any set standards that I know of at least
            Manufacturers and their engineers realize that these assemblies are often in need of disassembly and need to be reassembled often under less than ideal conditions and often with rudimentary tools so an acceptable clearance window has to be built in to make it user friendly.
            Think of having a 1/2" socket or open end wrench that was exactly .5000" and mating that with a fastener exactly the same size, or a thermostat the cuts in and out at exactly 72°,total PIA.

            Lots of examples that parallel that line of thinking, I think it's refereed to as fuzzy logic, or at least the term applies in this case.

            In the case of stud piloted wheels the accurate location of the studs and the tapered nuts and corresponding wheel seats assures accurate wheel location.

            Hub piloted wheel mounting systems rely on an accurate center hole on the wheel and and accurately machined hub on the spindle in order to assure a precise mount. In this case studs and nuts serve only to anchor the wheel to the hub.
            Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
            Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

            Location: British Columbia

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks for all that answered . The particular invention that I am working on, will need to fit through the wheel lug bolt hole . It still needs to be as large as is physically possible and yet still pass through the lug bolt hole. So therefore I was looking for some specific wheel lug bolt hole plus or minus tolerance dimensions thank you again


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

              Comment


              • #8
                And some wheels are lug-centered (ie, tapered lug nuts both center the wheel and hold it to the hub) or hug-centered (the hub has a protrusion that wheel closely fits over that centers the wheel, and the lug nuts are flat and just hold the wheel to the hub).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by dave_r View Post
                  And some wheels are lug-centered (i.e., tapered lug nuts both center the wheel and hold it to the hub)
                  Are you sure on this? Could you please give an example.

                  Seems to me the engineering challenges of making this work with acceptable tolerances for any kind of mass production are rather daunting.

                  Say the wheel has four lug nuts. Any wheel made has to fit any hub made in any of four clock positions such that when the nuts are tightened, they seat simultaneously, axially (so not as to induce bending stresses into the studs), keep the wheel central on the hub, and distribute the wheel load equally between the studs.

                  As I see it, any taper on the nuts is to help with rotational alignment of the wheel as a whole relative to the studs. It does not contribute to wheel alignment on the hub. Not too many good designs rely on a nut located on a thread (and one where the male threads are undoubtedly rolled, not cut) for alignment.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    google "lug centric wheels"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by djc View Post
                      Are you sure on this? Could you please give an example.

                      Seems to me the engineering challenges of making this work with acceptable tolerances for any kind of mass production are rather daunting.

                      Say the wheel has four lug nuts. Any wheel made has to fit any hub made in any of four clock positions such that when the nuts are tightened, they seat simultaneously, axially (so not as to induce bending stresses into the studs), keep the wheel central on the hub, and distribute the wheel load equally between the studs.

                      As I see it, any taper on the nuts is to help with rotational alignment of the wheel as a whole relative to the studs. It does not contribute to wheel alignment on the hub. Not too many good designs rely on a nut located on a thread (and one where the male threads are undoubtedly rolled, not cut) for alignment.
                      I've used "lug centric wheels", some on Stock Cars, with no problem but you have to do a little wiggling of the wheel to make sure the taper nut doesn't tighten off center to the hole because of the weight of the wheel pulling it to one side. With "hub center wheels" it's very much easier to get the tapered nut centered in the hole because the amount of force needed for the nut taper to rotate the wheel into alignment is very much less. Some wheels use lugnuts like these to center the wheel.
                      Last edited by Arcane; 07-07-2019, 05:11 AM.
                      Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by djc View Post
                        Are you sure on this? Could you please give an example.

                        Seems to me the engineering challenges of making this work with acceptable tolerances for any kind of mass production are rather daunting.

                        Say the wheel has four lug nuts. Any wheel made has to fit any hub made in any of four clock positions such that when the nuts are tightened, they seat simultaneously, axially (so not as to induce bending stresses into the studs), keep the wheel central on the hub, and distribute the wheel load equally between the studs.

                        As I see it, any taper on the nuts is to help with rotational alignment of the wheel as a whole relative to the studs. It does not contribute to wheel alignment on the hub. Not too many good designs rely on a nut located on a thread (and one where the male threads are undoubtedly rolled, not cut) for alignment.
                        It's true. BMW's are hub centric, older American cars were lug centric. If the lug nuts have a tapered seat, it's usually lug centric.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My Snap-On wheel balancer has a wheel lift built into it. You could just as easily use it to mount large wheels. I don't understand why you would want to use the mount holes to lift a wheel/tire. There are all types of tire OD lift assist tools. Also, not all vehicles use studs--Some use bolts.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Forestgnome View Post
                            It's true. BMW's are hub centric, older American cars were lug centric. If the lug nuts have a tapered seat, it's usually lug centric.
                            I found that to my joy when my neighbor needed a flat taken off their little-used BMW. Been on for 12 years (never rotated!). The rim was "one" with hubs; took a lot of effort, timbers, 10lb sledge etc. 12 winters of grit, salt and whatever.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by lakeside53 View Post
                              I found that to my joy when my neighbor needed a flat taken off their little-used BMW. Been on for 12 years (never rotated!). The rim was "one" with hubs; took a lot of effort, timbers, 10lb sledge etc. 12 winters of grit, salt and whatever.
                              That's the reason to use "Never-Seez" on lug nuts, being sure to get it on the tapered surface.

                              Abd, before some kind soul solemnly warns me that using any "lube" on the lug nuts will cause them to back off and cause the wheel to come off...... NO it will not....
                              1601

                              Keep eye on ball.
                              Hashim Khan

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X