Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ethanol in pump gas damages 2 cycle engines..???????

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    I like 10% --- it's a great octane booster and makes fuel burn much cleaner,,, but that's my limit - im against 15% and yet that's what we are going to this summer everywhere due to --- oh, well im not going to get into that cuz it will open a huge can of worms...

    but again - 10% gets me free equipment cuz people freak out the first time their stuff don't start...

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by mikegt4 View Post
      pure-gas lists 26 locations in the People's Republik of Massachusetts that have ethanol free gas. Admittedly some are old listings but at least a dozen have been confirmed within the last year. You may have to travel a bit but filling a 5 gallon can will last all year. Interestingly, the corn producing states seem to have a lot of ethanol free outlets.

      https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=MA
      Thanks, Mike. I have seen that listing and almost all of those are selling the VP Racing stuff that I can get at any NAPA parts store or lots of hardware stores in quart and gallon cans. It's the stuff I typically use anyhow. The only one close enough to make it anywhere close to being worth the trip is selling leaded racing fuel from a pump and it was ~$10/gallon in Jan 2018. There is a listing for an airport that was selling hogh octane non-ethanol stuff but it'd be a 2+ hour round trip and just not quite worth the trouble in the quantities I use.

      I do appreciate the info!

      Comment


      • #33
        I had many problems with my Poulan Pro chainsaw, possibly caused by ethanol, but I have always used the premix cans for that. It was always hard to start, then I was able to tweak the hi/lo mixture screws to get a little more use out of it, but eventually it just became a biceps builder and sweat generator. I bought a new carb and rebuild kit, but never installed it. Instead, I bought a 16" Echo lithium chainsaw which starts instantly whenever I need it and runs quietly and cleanly. I also have a battery powered trimmer, but it's an old B&D SLA version which is heavy and only runs for 15-20 minutes. But I also have a corded trimmer which does the job for me. The newer lines of lithium powered tools are approaching the point where gas powered tools may be obsolete and inferior.

        The generator I bought recently runs on propane, which avoids the problems with ethanol in gasoline, and it also burns cleaner. It should, anyway - I haven't used it yet. Perhaps they will make 4 cycle chain saws and trimmers that run on propane?

        https://www.survivalistboards.com/sh...d.php?t=365719

        https://golehr.com/propane-powered-l...rden-products/
        http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png

        Paul: www.peschoen.com
        P S Technology, Inc. www.pstech-inc.com
        and Muttley www.muttleydog.com

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by PStechPaul View Post
          I had many problems with my Poulan Pro chainsaw, possibly caused by ethanol, but I have always used the premix cans for that. It was always hard to start, then I was able to tweak the hi/lo mixture screws to get a little more use out of it, but eventually it just became a biceps builder and sweat generator. I bought a new carb and rebuild kit, but never installed it. Instead, I bought a 16" Echo lithium chainsaw which starts instantly whenever I need it and runs quietly and cleanly. I also have a battery powered trimmer, but it's an old B&D SLA version which is heavy and only runs for 15-20 minutes. But I also have a corded trimmer which does the job for me. The newer lines of lithium powered tools are approaching the point where gas powered tools may be obsolete and inferior.

          The generator I bought recently runs on propane, which avoids the problems with ethanol in gasoline, and it also burns cleaner. It should, anyway - I haven't used it yet. Perhaps they will make 4 cycle chain saws and trimmers that run on propane?

          https://www.survivalistboards.com/sh...d.php?t=365719

          https://golehr.com/propane-powered-l...rden-products/
          There are already have 4 stroke trimmers that I see no reason why you couldn't run on propane. They have 4 stroke chainsaws as well but they still use an oil mix, so that is still problematic.

          Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post
          On a somewhat related note, I have been wondering how older Diesels (Detroit, etc.) survive with the low sulfer crap now days.
          Fuel Additives. Unlike the hard-to-remove ethanol, it's easy to add stuff. A fellow on YouTube named Scott (Grease Bus Monkey) puts about 40k a year on a Detroit Greyhound bus driving around fixing other Detroits. He is probably a decently reputable source if you need info on that.
          21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration

          Comment


          • #35
            It looks like the Lehr propane tools were a flash in the pan, and they are no longer available. Too bad - seemed like a good idea. I would like to try converting a weed trimmer to propane, but the three junk trimmers I have are two-cycle, and propane needs four cycle. There aren't many old junk 4 cycle trimmers, and new units are rather expensive. Here is a video of a propane weed whacker conversion, but it is only part 1, and it ended without fixing the problems of fuel mixture, speed regulation, and other issues.



            Apparently never got it running. Part 2 is converting it to run on water: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aV1Aooakos

            Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtGd5cupSMg (start video at 5:15 to see an epic FAIL!)

            I'll stick with electric machines
            http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png

            Paul: www.peschoen.com
            P S Technology, Inc. www.pstech-inc.com
            and Muttley www.muttleydog.com

            Comment


            • #36
              Propane for a weed whipper doesn't seem like a good idea, as propane is less powerful than gas (per unit volume), so you need a bigger tank, the tank needs to be made of metal, so it's also heavier, and you'd want a special pickup tube in the tank, so it only gets the vapour (with a regular tank, if you invert them, you get liquid out, and weed whippers can be used in a variety of orientations).

              Comment


              • #37
                I don't currently own any small engines old enough for E10 to negatively affect, my oldest is a '97MY by which time manufacturers had the issues pretty well figured out. When fuel gets to be ~6-8 months old I either dump it, pump it, or run it low depending on tank size and refill with fresh as after that you're running the risk of causing issues if sucked into a fuel system regardless if its E10 or not. If its a rarely used item like my old snow machine then it gets topped off and STABIL added, then after two years I dump it, pump it, or run it low. For rarely used smaller two strokes the better pre-mixes are usually good for at least a year IME.
                "I am, and ever will be, a white-socks, pocket-protector, nerdy engineer -- born under the second law of thermodynamics, steeped in the steam tables, in love with free-body diagrams, transformed by Laplace, and propelled by compressible flow."

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by justanengineer View Post
                  I don't currently own any small engines old enough for E10 to negatively affect, my oldest is a '97MY by which time manufacturers had the issues pretty well figured out. When fuel gets to be ~6-8 months old I either dump it, pump it, or run it low depending on tank size and refill with fresh as after that you're running the risk of causing issues if sucked into a fuel system regardless if its E10 or not. If its a rarely used item like my old snow machine then it gets topped off and STABIL added, then after two years I dump it, pump it, or run it low. For rarely used smaller two strokes the better pre-mixes are usually good for at least a year IME.
                  We've got about the same practices --- the only thing to fear is fear itself, or becoming such a neurotic about "anti-ethanol" that you make things way worse than the ethanol itself...

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I purchased a Still chainsaw last year. I had fuel mixed up out of E90 regular gas and it would not run. Took it back and was shown the problem so I changed to non ethanol gas. In fact on my push mower I have a cut off and run the carb dry as an extra precaution


                    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by justanengineer View Post
                      I don't currently own any small engines old enough for E10 to negatively affect, my oldest is a '97MY by which time manufacturers had the issues pretty well figured out. When fuel gets to be ~6-8 months old I either dump it, pump it, or run it low depending on tank size and refill with fresh as after that you're running the risk of causing issues if sucked into a fuel system regardless if its E10 or not. If its a rarely used item like my old snow machine then it gets topped off and STABIL added, then after two years I dump it, pump it, or run it low. For rarely used smaller two strokes the better pre-mixes are usually good for at least a year IME.
                      If it has a carburetor and a vented fuel tank it is old enough to be affected.
                      Small engine manufacturers still loath E10 but are forced to accept it, E15 causes convulsions in the board rooms.
                      Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                      Bad Decisions Make Good Stories

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        There was a guy, i think in Iowa, that would only run non-ethanol in his chainsaw, one winter he set out in a snowstorm to get the non-ethanol fuel so he could cut up a bunch of firewood into smaller blocks then split it to keep his Wife and newborn alive through the storm,
                        the station he normally went to converted to 10% ethanol so he had to go way out of his way,,, took him a half day, by the time he got back his Wife had severe frost bite and the newborn was as stiff as a brick... what's really sad to this story is parked in the garage was her hyundai that had a full tank of 10% ethanol blend that could have ran the saw herself but she stated later she did not want to run that junk fuel because her husband told her it would not even start the saw...

                        the baby was buried the next day and did not even have to be embalmed because it was still frozen solid... sad story...

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Multiple layers of stupidity in that story.

                          1. With enough layers of blankets, or a good sleeping bag, and multiple layers of clothing, she could have stayed warm enough to avoid frostbite, and the infant would have been fine if she had held it close to her under the insulation.

                          2. She could have started the car and run it long enough to warm up (being careful to vent the exhaust out of the garage).

                          3. It's a good idea to have one or more kerosene heaters and a couple 5 gallon cans of fuel for emergencies. Kerosene keeps just about forever.

                          4. Always have at least a week's worth of dry firewood cut. And there is usually enough scrap wood and branches around that can be cut by hand and split with a maul. The exercise also helps keep blood flowing.

                          5. The stupidity of the guy speaks for itself.
                          http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png

                          Paul: www.peschoen.com
                          P S Technology, Inc. www.pstech-inc.com
                          and Muttley www.muttleydog.com

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by justanengineer View Post
                            I don't currently own any small engines old enough for E10 to negatively affect, my oldest is a '97MY by which time manufacturers had the issues pretty well figured out. When fuel gets to be ~6-8 months old I either dump it, pump it, or run it low depending on tank size and refill with fresh as after that you're running the risk of causing issues if sucked into a fuel system regardless if its E10 or not. If its a rarely used item like my old snow machine then it gets topped off and STABIL added, then after two years I dump it, pump it, or run it low. For rarely used smaller two strokes the better pre-mixes are usually good for at least a year IME.
                            The issues with ethanol in the fuel are still valid. Even if the parts in the carb are not affected any longer the fuel itself still ages badly and clogs things up when not used regularly. All of my own small 2 stroke yard tools are from well into the age of ethanol in the gas. But two of them that got fed with ethanol gasoline choked and needed the carbs to be stripped down and rebuilt. The parts that came out were not damaged near as I could see. But I did need to blow out more than one of the small orifices with carb cleaner and compressed air.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
                              There was a guy, i think in Iowa, that would only run non-ethanol in his chainsaw, one winter he set out in a snowstorm to get the non-ethanol fuel so he could cut up a bunch of firewood into smaller blocks then split it to keep his Wife and newborn alive through the storm,
                              the station he normally went to converted to 10% ethanol so he had to go way out of his way,,, took him a half day, by the time he got back his Wife had severe frost bite and the newborn was as stiff as a brick... what's really sad to this story is parked in the garage was her hyundai that had a full tank of 10% ethanol blend that could have ran the saw herself but she stated later she did not want to run that junk fuel because her husband told her it would not even start the saw...

                              the baby was buried the next day and did not even have to be embalmed because it was still frozen solid... sad story...


                              I find many aspects of this story difficult to believe. Not the least of which is that is was so cold that the baby was frozen solid the next day, yet a hole could be dug for a grave? I guess the ground wasn't frozen as solidly as the baby?

                              There was gas in the Hyundai? Well, why not just start the car and use the car's heater?

                              Just another urban legend.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                IIRC the DOE(?) standard for gasoline shelf life is a minimum of six months. If you have to go beyond that a fuel stabilizer is a good idea.

                                The bigger issue that I've seen with small equipment is folks using fuel with not enough octane. Ethanol negatively affects the fuel's flammability and consequently, the tuning. The OEs usually recommend a fairly low (by American standards) 87'ish for pure gas but with E10 92 is usually necessary due to spark timing. 25 years ago, the first thing my grandfather always did troubleshooting others' saws was to dump the fuel, add fresh, and give it a good shake as in many cases somebody filled with cheap gas.
                                "I am, and ever will be, a white-socks, pocket-protector, nerdy engineer -- born under the second law of thermodynamics, steeped in the steam tables, in love with free-body diagrams, transformed by Laplace, and propelled by compressible flow."

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X