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Scotchman 314 Ironworker - Things to Know?

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  • Scotchman 314 Ironworker - Things to Know?

    I'm thinking about buying a used Scotchman model 314. I know very little about it but it's at a very attractive price. Anything I should know? I've used newer models before and I suppose the hydraulics (i.e. pump and cylinder) are the big ticket items. Any ideas on what I can do to evaluate the health of the hydraulics? Looks like I can still buy punches and dies for it and they aren't too expensive. I haven't priced out new blades for the shear or notcher but I'm guessing they're a few hundred.

    User manual: https://scotchman.com/uploads/314.pdf

  • #2
    Yep the hydraulics is the big item. Pay attention when moving it, the ones I've used are top heavy, with clearly marked lift points. We never had to get blades, they can be re-ground quite a bit. ISTR the ones we had were made of D-2 hardened to about 60 hrc.. Some love on a surface grinder is all you need. Look for puddles of oil or frayed wires when inspecting, look for signs of a clean-up or a cover-up. Could be a good deal if it has a bunch of punches with it. EDIT make sure there isn't too much gap between the blades, if it can be adjusted.

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    • #3
      We had a 207?Scotchman long while ago.Can't fault it,thing worked good,the hydraulic system was dirt simple,common bi-directional gear pump,coupled to an electric motor with a lovejoy coupling.Think the pump was maybe 5gpm,which can be had for $100ish brand new these days.Simple single spool control valve,again nothing special.

      What's a good price??/
      I just need one more tool,just one!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by wierdscience View Post
        We had a 207?Scotchman long while ago.Can't fault it,thing worked good,the hydraulic system was dirt simple,common bi-directional gear pump,coupled to an electric motor with a lovejoy coupling.Think the pump was maybe 5gpm,which can be had for $100ish brand new these days.Simple single spool control valve,again nothing special.

        What's a good price??/
        I'll report back with more information if I'm able to buy it. I'm worried it will get snatched up before I can go get it! It appears to be in really rough shape but asking price is not much more than scrap value. Looks like fully operational units are going for about $1200 to $2000 for the 314, which is probably the least desirable model (has the punch "inside" instead of "outside" so it makes it tough to punch large or irregular pieces). A more desirable, fully functional machine seems to go for $6k to $10k or more, depending on condition and features. I remember looking for used ironworkers several years ago when I was in the Midwest and was shocked by the prices. Looks like it's about the same out here on the coast.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post
          Yep the hydraulics is the big item. Pay attention when moving it, the ones I've used are top heavy, with clearly marked lift points. We never had to get blades, they can be re-ground quite a bit. ISTR the ones we had were made of D-2 hardened to about 60 hrc.. Some love on a surface grinder is all you need. Look for puddles of oil or frayed wires when inspecting, look for signs of a clean-up or a cover-up. Could be a good deal if it has a bunch of punches with it. EDIT make sure there isn't too much gap between the blades, if it can be adjusted.
          Thanks for the advice. Still talking with the seller but it looks like it's fresh from the back of the barn, covered in bird and mouse droppings. Not sure it's been used in the past couple of decades!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Fasttrack View Post
            Thanks for the advice. Still talking with the seller but it looks like it's fresh from the back of the barn, covered in bird and mouse droppings. Not sure it's been used in the past couple of decades!
            In that case you might have dried out hydraulic seals, surface rust and chewed up wiring. I don't think any of that stuff is major, it could be one heck of a deal. Last time I was pricing out new ones in the 1990's was about $5k for an entry-level model with no tooling.

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            • #7
              I have always been curious how it got its name?, as there is no such thing as a Scotchman!
              Max.

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              • #8
                Definition - Scotchman ; man who drinks to much scotch.
                The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

                Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

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                • #9
                  I never cared for the design of a Scotchman, but I have owned a couple different Gekas which I really liked. The small Gekas had a rocking beam for the punch which would wear to an oval. Salesman called after we owned it for a month and I told him except for that it’s great. He asked how many holes we were getting from a punch and I told him about 5,000. He said that was great life. I said it wasn’t as we were punching around 12,000 holes a week!

                  If you are a fabricator and don’t have a hydraulic ironworker you don’t know what you are missing!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by loose nut View Post
                    Definition - Scotchman ; man who drinks to much scotch.

                    Ironically it is not called Scotch in Scotland, its called Whiskey!
                    IOW a 'Scotsman' drinks whiskey!
                    Everyone else drinks 'Scotch'.
                    Max.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by loose nut View Post
                      Definition - Scotchman ; man who drinks to much scotch.
                      I guess theoretically,it is possible.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by garyhlucas View Post
                        I never cared for the design of a Scotchman, but I have owned a couple different Gekas which I really liked. The small Gekas had a rocking beam for the punch which would wear to an oval. Salesman called after we owned it for a month and I told him except for that it’s great. He asked how many holes we were getting from a punch and I told him about 5,000. He said that was great life. I said it wasn’t as we were punching around 12,000 holes a week!

                        If you are a fabricator and don’t have a hydraulic ironworker you don’t know what you are missing!
                        I've been hearing great things about Geka as I've been researching ironworkers but beggars can't be choosers, so to speak! I don't make my living doing fabrication, so I can't justify spending several thousand or more on a nice ironworker. I'll settle for an old junker. I just got through drilling 208 1/2" holes through 3/8" steel and thought I should look for something faster. That's not quite in the same league as 12,000 holes a week

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                        • #13
                          We got an old Buffalo#1/2 at work that's unstoppable.People are scared off from mechanicals,but pound for pound they will out work a hydraulic unless you're over the $30k+ range.

                          https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-BUFFALO...QAAOSwsGlavQjw

                          Ours has no trouble punching 13/16" holes in 3/4" plate,its only rated at 58 tons.I also have a #1-1/2 setting out in the weeds waiting for a rebuild when I get time,think it's rated at 85 tons.

                          This is a #2-1/2 I believe,a beast of a machine.
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu5Ujbi4Jx0
                          I just need one more tool,just one!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wierdscience View Post
                            We got an old Buffalo#1/2 at work that's unstoppable.People are scared off from mechanicals,but pound for pound they will out work a hydraulic unless you're over the $30k+ range.

                            https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-BUFFALO...QAAOSwsGlavQjw

                            Ours has no trouble punching 13/16" holes in 3/4" plate,its only rated at 58 tons.I also have a #1-1/2 setting out in the weeds waiting for a rebuild when I get time,think it's rated at 85 tons.

                            This is a #2-1/2 I believe,a beast of a machine.
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu5Ujbi4Jx0
                            The forces exerted there are insane. A bit hard for me to imagine, it makes it look so easy.
                            21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by The Metal Butcher View Post
                              The forces exerted there are insane. A bit hard for me to imagine, it makes it look so easy.
                              Yep we used to have an 80 ton Buffalo at work years ago, it would pop a 1-inch hole thru 3/4 plate without making a sound, all day long.

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