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More toolblock fun:

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  • More toolblock fun:

    In between other work (we all know how that goes) I managed to finish up one of the carbide-insert toolblocks:

    Again, because the tool height is fixed because of the insert, I made a fixed stop, rather than an adjustable thumbwheel.

    My teach at the college gave me a handful of lightly-used but still servicible inserts, in a variety of styles, and so I made the holder to take any common 3/8" IC triangular TPG, TPGB or TPU type insert.

    I have ten or twelve plain TPG, uncoated, and the clamp seems to hold 'em pretty securely. It's hard to see, but there's a thin wall on the forward edge, so two sides of the insert are supported. Also note that the clamp has a slight indexing notch in the radius at the base of the main body of the block- this locks the clamp to keep it from twisting off the insert.

    I'm going to duplicate this one with a mirror-image nose, for facing, but I have two more rough-milled to make a similar turning block. What inserts or style should I make 'em? Suggestions?

    Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

  • #2
    Nicely done.


    • #3
      Thanks Thrud.

      Third pic:

      The clamping bar is flat, but the notch at the back end (towards the block) is slightly raised by a few thou, allowing the bar to lever down and contact only the insert (which is itself a thou or three higher than the surrounding steel.)

      I also wanted to point out I added a few degrees of rake to the insert- the pocket floor is a few degrees off level with the block/post. I probably won't be able to use the zero-rake double-sided inserts, but that's okay. The plain TPGs are plentiful enough.

      Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)


      • #4
        That's beautiful work, Doc. My beady eyes also noted the perfectly ground HSS tool in the second picture. I've been using only HSS tools so far on my Myford and grind them myself, so I always appreciate seeing nicely-ground toolbits.


        • #5
          I've only recently gotten into the carbides for the lathe. HSS was always way cheaper, more customizable and more plentiful.

          The only carbide I'd been using prior to this, were a handful of the usual cheap import cemented carbide lathe tools that I usually saved for the nasty jobs, like turning an old rusty axle shaft.

          I'd had a few inserted boring bars and a smattering of inserts, and they've proven useful. I made up a special boring bar for an application, and used a carbide bit rather than a piece of HSS on a setscrew, since I could replace it and keep my dimensions on a somewhat critical short-production-run.

          And so, since I was making up some new toolblocks anyway, it was no great leap to make up a block that took the same or a similar bit directly.

          I expect to use them occasionally, especially when turning O1 or stainless, but the majority of my lathe tools are still highspeed steel.

          Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)


          • #6
            NEAT, NEAT, NEAT. But would you quit with all this new stuff. I just started a run for my tool holder blocks and now you go and change the idea. Good thing I haven't started drilling any holes or cut the dovetail yet. I might just have enough room to move the dovetail outboard enough to make room for a screw in insert.

            Would cutting the insert pocket 5آ° or 10آ° negative, X and Y, allow the use of double sided inserts? Seems like it would.

            Keep those ideas coming. I need all the help I can get.

            Happy Holidays.


            • #7
              Nice job!Have you tried to see how hard you can push an insert yet?
              I just need one more tool,just one!


              • #8
                Hey Doc, nice job. What "blackening, bluing, browning" method did you use please? JRouche
                My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group



                • #9
                  GreenWilly- (have you had that checked?) It's my understanding that double-sided inserts are zero-rake, and the pockets of the holders are milled at a negative rake (tilted towards the workpiece.)

                  So if you want to use double-sided inserts and/or have an application for negative-rake machining, then yes, just cut to seat appropriately. I'm definitely no expert, but it seems 10 degrees of negative rake would be excessive.

                  wierd- Not yet. I tried an .030" pass on a stub of rusty steel (I think it used to be a big truck wheel stud) and it didn't complain a bit. I tried a quickie .050" pass on a hunk of scrap aluminum and the finish came out very nice.

                  My lathe only has a 3/4 HP motor, and a somewhat-slippy flat-belt drive, so I suspect the belt will give before I overpower the grip of the insert. At absolute worst, I could use both the center screw and the clamp on a center-hole insert. I imagine that'd take more HP than three of my lathes can produce.

                  JRouche- It's "gun blue", a liquid prep you can get at most gun-accessories retailers, as well as (I think) places like K-Mart or Wal-Mart (if they have a gun/sporting goods/reloading section.) It's a bottle of a bluish fluid, wipe it on clean, carefully-degreased steel, and it almost instantly turns a deep blue-black. Oil it heavily afterward to "seal" it and stop the process (which is akin to rust) and bring out the gloss.

                  It's not as smooth as real gun blue, nor as durable, but it's cheap, simple, and easy to touch up if necessary.

                  Only reason I did it was so the blocks wouldn't rust from fingerprints, and would more or less match the stock toolpost blocks. It's very close, actually.

                  Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)


                  • #10
                    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Doc Nickel:
                    [b]It's "gun blue", a liquid prep you can get at most gun-accessories retailers, as well as (I think) places like K-Mart or Wal-Mart (if they have a gun/sporting goods/reloading section.)
                    Headin to kmart now. Thank you sir. JRouche
                    My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group



                    • #11
                      good morning.

                      GWP; i buy a lot of inserts from the local 'tool by the pound' guy. these are used and surplus tools that come from some aircraft factory. the inserts i get are of all dfferent kinds and shapes. i have made lots of toolholders for them. i have found that about 7* of rake is what works best with negative rake inserts. it doesn't seem to matter much what shape the insert is. i realize this ain't scientific, but the lathe i am using them on is a generic chinese 14x40 that has been worked over enough to be pretty tight. i still like positive rake inserts better. the necative rake ones kind of rub the metal off and the positive ones *cut*. i cut the pockets for positive rake inserts flat, or at 0*. parallel with the plane of the toolholder.

                      i have noticed some negative rake toolholders in catalogs with an 11* pocket for the insert, but have never used anything like that. it seems like a lot of rake to me.

                      JRouche; i have had pretty good luck blackening tools by coating with oil and heating until it turns black. it seems to make a pretty durable surface. i wouldn't want to do that with something that had to hold a fine tolerance, but it doesn't seem to hurt the toolholders. mine aren't as pretty as Doc's, but they work. it doens't seem to matter whether the oil is new or used, but heavier oil seems to work better than light oil. i have also used a couple of Brownell's cold bluing products. the oil seems to make a tougher finish.

                      this is my $.02 worth, offered freely, and probably overpriced at that.

                      ........i dremel. therefore i am..........................


                      • #12
                        Thanks Billr. I'm not yet totally convinced I know anything about what I'm not sure of conserning carbide bits and I thank you for the input. I will use it on the next run of toolholders I just finished the drawings on. Doc Nickels just keeps coming up with these good ideas and keeps killing my projects, or at least re-starting them in a different direction.

                        A few months ago I made a several 3 and 4 bit "endmills", a 60آ° dovetail and a 2 bit 45آ° chamfer using the TNMG 333's I "won" on Ebay. The all worked, "cut"?, after a fashion but I figured out very quickly the insert(s) were dragging badly and heating up something fierce. I had to laugh when I took a real close look. My mind had overlooked the obvious while plugged into the full operation.

                        I have some 11آ° relief TPG's and SPG's ordered that will solve that problem.

                        I cut all those pockets flat and thought about recutting them to 5آ° neg, which should allow the TNMG to keep their Kool, but I keep needing to eat, sleep get out of the shop to warm un and do a 140 mile round trip for propane once a week. Now, it's the season and this month will be a total nuker, and my list keeps getting longer and longer.

                        I decided to try an even different approach to the "Integrated" toolholder that will make it even simpler and quicker to make if Santa will bring me a rotary table this year. I've been a very good boy and deserve it, besides, it will make it easier to cut those &%**!!!XXX? Trigon pockets, at least. If I can score a digital camera somehow, I will get a few gaffaws posted in the new year. We all need humor to lighten the load.

                        Hey Doc N. I see why you do such good work. Awesome thingys. Not enough superlatives to even begin. You are a true artist. Michelangelo, Brunelleschi, Botticeli and Donatello would all be envious. Beautiful.

                        Happy Holidays


                        • #13
                          Aren't those the Ninja Turtles?

                          Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)


                          • #14
                            No, no, no, no, Those guys are Leonardo, Donatello, Michelangelo and Raphael. Personally, I'm partial to Raphael, he phits my phile or is it, I phit his???. I'm trying tho'.

                            The other 4 were my homyz in the old hood. They worked wonders on two wheels or four, motorized or not. All did a schtik for products not legal found in their back yards. Totally bogus you understand, the cops were out to get them because their kids kept the whi-pazz can open on the Kopskids.

                            Happy Holidays


                            • #15

                              I bought a Wally world cheapie dig camera 3 years ago. But it takes picts that I post here, Many limitations. but I post picts to the web

                              ~=$30.00 then. Not even availabl today as far as I know.

                              For the 'sharp eyed' ones, I didn't/don't have access to a mill or lathe and that is/was/does work for the trike's electric motor final drive well enough that even IF I had a lathe, I would NOT re do it. It bolts to the hub! Over sized sprocket mounting holes, loosen, tap, tap, tighten. Nearly no chain loosen/tighten. Good enough.


                              [This message has been edited by Crazy Ed (edited 12-04-2004).]