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  • Breech loading cannon

    I have been wanting to machine a breech loading cannon to fire with 12 guage blanks like the ones sold by cannon-mania for use in the Winchester blank cannons they sell. My design work is done, and I feel confident that it is as strong or stronger than the Winchester breech mechanism. My concern is that I want to make sure that I don't stray into producing a "firearm" which might violate the law.
    I have sent a few emails to cannon-mania to inquire as to the design of the Winchester cannon that allows it to be produced as a non-firearm, but I have not heard back from them. I was hoping someone out there could provide me with the info I need.
    I have made several muzzle loading cannon, but really want to graduate to the next level of realistic and more modern artillery pieces. Any help in understanding the laws regarding "salute" type cannons would be well received, and I thank you in advance for your information.

  • #2
    I Think it would fall under the same category as hollywood type guns that only shoot blanks.

    It is best that youy write a letter to the ATF about it, and ask them, show them your design.

    [This message has been edited by BillH (edited 12-28-2004).]

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    • #3
      Not even the police understand gun laws.

      There was a local (Atlanta) atf agent bragging he could use a special oil on semi auto guns and make them fire full auto. NOW, When they start acting like that you know they don't have YOUR best interests at heart.

      You have to be a millionaire to get out of trouble these days and "prove" your innocence. If they come a knockin, you better have a big bank account to satisfy the attorneys. You lose, if you are doing something wrong or not, you lose. Read that, bail money, attorney money, more bail money, more attorney money and then if you are guilty, everything from court costs to fines and personal attachments to all your property read that RICO act in effect.. If they take a liking to your streetrod or harley, it is thiers.. If you drink and drive, it is thiers.. I have "NO Faith" in corrupt and crooked police down the the deals made on the golf course for the judges.

      In other words if there is any doubt about a gun, DON'T build it. If it is a NON shooter you had better put a big red cap on the end of the weapon. I have been approached to build illegal items and I loudly refuse.

      On the other side, Brent Marsh, of Marsh creamatorium , you know the poor black man who stacked all the corpses he was paid to creamate? He probably won't serve 2 years for putting my friends granny out for the possums to chew on. (it was discovered when a neighborhood dog brought out human remains to a jogger)
      His poor wife, she was verbally assaulted and now the people responsible will probably spend more time in prison/jail then he will.

      Welcome to America. It was founded on ideological and sound Biblical principles. Washington needs a enema to get it back like it was. Too many attorneys, Don't they make the politicians out of crooked successful attorneys?
      We all need laws to live by, but they need to be just and defineable, not different laws for different people.

      (okay I am taking one of the lil blue pills) Off my soapbox.. No, I don't think I'd build any kind of gun, weapon or knife, or ....

      David

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      • #4
        I would either underbore or better yet overbore the barrel... then about 1" from the end of it place 2 cross pins through the bore. That should cover it to comply with non-firearm reg's. Oh and clearly mark BLANKS ONLY on the working end.

        Tim
        Wow... where did the time go. I could of swore I was only out there for an hour.

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        • #5
          I doubt that it would be any different than building a shotgun for personal use. The barrel length might be a problem area.

          I would definitely NOT put any obstructions in the bore.

          The Winchester cannon fires a 10 ga. black powder blank shell. It may be a special shell that has no room for a projectile, and a short chamber that will not accept a standard length shell. They also make a deal about being fired by a lanyard.

          My faith in the ATF is about the same as others. They have a distinct advantage as they can make up the rules as they go, and entrapment is standard method of operation.
          Jim H.

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          • #6
            When you shoot blanks in semi auto firearms, your required to put a blank firing device on the gun so the action cycles. The device is just an obstruction that creates some back pressure for gas operated firearms.
            Putting an obstruction in the barrel is probably required for atf regulations. Just dont obstruct more than you need to or you'll make a pipebomb.

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            • #7
              All commercially produced blank / starter pistols have crosses wedged into the end of the barrels... allowing the gases to discharge without obstruction or causing a pressure rise. Placing two 1/8" pins through the muzzle end of the barrel of a blank only canon would be the same principle and would also make muzzle loading it a none issue... if in fear of being question or look at by the authorities... that's the route I'd take.

              Tim
              Wow... where did the time go. I could of swore I was only out there for an hour.

              Comment


              • #8
                <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ibewgypsie:
                Not even the police understand gun laws.

                There was a local (Atlanta) atf agent bragging he could use a special oil on semi auto guns and make them fire full auto.
                </font>
                The oil has/is Molybdenum disulfide in it. On some weapons if it is on
                the sear, it will not always stay cocked.

                Be safe, keep safe

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                • #9
                  What a truly pathetic state of affairs, when a man even has to take these absurd regulations into consideration. The land of the free....

                  [This message has been edited by x39 (edited 12-28-2004).]

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                  • #10
                    "and the home of the slave"...jim
                    ...jim

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                    • #11
                      It should be nothing more than a really heavy shotgun. Just make sure the barrel is of legal length for a shotgun, 18 inches right? I believe all you have left to do is make sure it has a smooth bore it its a 'destructive device'.
                      James Kilroy

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                      • #12

                        You can safely place a 50% obstruction at the &gt;&gt;end&lt;&lt; of the barrel. The entire length of the barrel will allow the gas to expand. Also, because you're firing a "blank" there is far less backpressure compaired to pushing a "slug". The pressure with a real slug is much more.

                        -3Ph

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                        • #13
                          I believe any weapon over 100 years old, or reproduction of, is considered a curio.
                          Curio's fall into a non gun catagory.

                          I did some research into this when making muzzle loading cannons some years ago.

                          Check the ATF website.



                          [This message has been edited by kap pullen (edited 12-29-2004).]

                          [This message has been edited by kap pullen (edited 12-29-2004).]

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                          • #14
                            Yes, Non gun..

                            Lets see, pipe nipples + endcaps + black powder + lathe = pipe bomb = Arrest, bail money, attorney fees, court fees. This happened to a friend. He also had pipe wrenches, pipe tape, paste, and a cap and ball pistol.

                            Isn't a replica black powder pistol also a non-gun.

                            I think it depends on interpetation of the law, the policeman, the judge and the person's ability to defend his own rights financially in court.

                            And it is going to get worse.

                            Before it does, I'd like to build a cannon, a gatling gun, a few more black powder weapons. I love things that go bang, boom or swish boom. I just am not going to build them for anyone else.

                            Breechloader? why stop with a 12 ga. A 50 caliber would make more sense and more boom for the buck. Where did I see them aircraft barrels? Turn this nice casing to resemble a cannon.

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                            • #15
                              What's the real issue with building a gun? Is this just a permit issue? (I.E: you need a gun/firearm permit), or are there laws in place preventing people from "making" them regardless if they have a gun/firearm permit?

                              -3Ph

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