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Itch for a 17 cal.

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  • SDH
    replied
    I was looking at CZ452 rifles years ago and on impulse got one in 17HM2. It is the absolute most accurate rimfire rifle I have ever shot. When the ammo looked to be going obsolete, I purchased Several thousand rounds. The ammo now seems more readily available than ever and I see these rifle selling quickly for what I consider ridiculous prices. But I have one and aint selling. Also have a 452 in .22 rimfire and consider it a fine rifle as well. These have blued steel and European walnut stock, just like REAL guns!

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  • sarge41
    replied
    As an up-date, I was looking around on Brownells and the 17 HM2 barrel liners seemed to be unobtainiam.

    Sarge41

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  • sarge41
    replied
    Dons: Thanks for the additional info. My 1906 is chambered for LR. I think the little pumps that were for 22 shorts were intended for carnival shooting galleries. I have seen some 1890's (hex or octagon barrels, not sure which) that had a groove cut in the rifleing near the end of the barrel to destroy its accuracy. they were also intended for the carnival business. Not sure if they were done so, at Winchester or by aftermarket shops. You have a good point about being possible to re-sleeve from 17 HM2 to 22 LR if ammo got difficult to obtain. Also thanks about the tip about CE Harris, will check it out.

    Sarge41

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  • dons
    replied
    Sarge,

    I think you are wise to measure availability of 17HM2 before undertaking a barrel lining project on your 1906. I have actually found more HM2 ammo in the last year than I have in six years previous to that. If you can find a satisfactory amount, the 1906 would make a nifty little conversion.

    A couple caveats, The first couple of years it was only introduced as a 22 short so some action work might be necessary for a longer cartridge (if yours is an early variant). After that, Winchester did a redesign to take short, long and LR. If you have one of those the task is easier. The other thing is you would be using a pointed bullet in a tubular magazine. Granted it is a rimfire, and there is no recoil to speak of. All the ammo I have is polymer tip so no big deal. but I would be remiss not to mention it as a point of consideration.

    I have relined two rimfire barrels to 17 HM2, A contender pistol barrel and an older mossberg bolt rifle. I got a Manson reamer from Brownells and used acraglass to anchor the liners. Both are good shooters.

    If you found that 17HM2 ammo was not available, you could still reline in 22 LR. The advantage is you would retain the original barrel markings. CE (Ed) Harris had a very interesting article in the 2009 gun digest on accurizing 22 auto rifles. While yours is a slide action, he gives some good thoughts on relining and using a match chambered reamer to enhance accuracy. Google CE Harris, Making an accurate autoloader and it should come up. I've read a lot of his stuff and found it quite worthwhile. Among other things he was an engineer for Ruger for a number of years.

    Best of luck on a cool project.
    Don

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  • sarge41
    replied
    Dons: Thanks for your observations. Part of my last post got garbled, but I was trying to say I was thinking about sleeving my 1906 Winchester down to a 17 cal. Since the 17HM2 is a necked down 22 LR, it seemed like a good fit, but I want to be sure I can get ammo at a later date. The 17 HMR is too long to feed. I'm going to get on Rimfire.com. and ask around.
    Sarge41

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  • dons
    replied
    Sarge,
    You raise an excellent point. The HM2 was introduced after the HMR. Less case capacity and somewhat slower, it never enjoyed the popularity of its bigger brother the HMR. It does have somewhat of a niche following and is very popular with truly rabid tree squirrel hunters ( guys like me ). Beyond that it thins out quickly. While ammo is available you really have to look. I buy it whenever I find it as I never know when it may go out of fashion for good.

    What are other options? Well in rimfire there is of course the HMR. If you are interested in using that round to harvest edible small game, there are now some less explosive offerings for that purpose such as the CCI 17 HMR gamepoint ammo. It is less damaging, but will still destroy a lot of edible meat up close. If small varmint control is the objective ( skunks, possums, raccoon, woodchuck sized game) then the standard HMR offerings work well. There is also a 17 WSM rimfire which will get you up into 3000 fps territory. I have no personal experience with the WSM.

    As RWS points out there is an entirely different class of 17's which are the centerfire numbers. These jobs can push a 17 caliber pill in the high 3000 fps range well into 4000 fps territory. Well known here is the 17 Remington that RWS mentions.

    Centerfire 17's are often wildcat cartridges. Back before the introduction of the rimfire 17's, some of us played with a little number called the 17 squirrel ( of course). This little sweetheart is a 22 hornet, shortened and bottlenecked down to 17. And yes it can be handloaded into 17 HM2 territory. I still use mine where centerfire restrictions are not in place.


    So when we talk about seventeens there is a lot to choose from. Saubier.net is a website dealing with small calibers which may be a good resource.

    Anyway, please pardon my enthusiasm on the subject. I really can't help myself.

    Don

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  • sarge41
    replied
    I just left a large gunshop here in southern Indiana/northern Kentucky area, (Whittakers) and they can't get CZ's but have plenty of ammo, such as 22's, 22 mags, and 17HRM. i didn't see any 17 HM2 "s. Have you all noticed any shortage of 17HM2's? I have a 1906 Winchester pump that the barrel is dark. I was pondering the possibility of converting Another thought just hit me, is 17HM2's on their way out?

    Sarge41

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  • rws
    replied
    Never had a 17 rimfire, but had a 17 Remington. FAST!!!!! Amazing what that think will do.

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  • Teachu2
    replied
    In 17HMR, I have a Savage 93R17BTVSS and a CZ 455. The machine work on the CZ is nicer, but the Savage thumbhole stock, stainless steel, and AccuTrigger are better. I replaced the CZ trigger with a Rifle Basix, which adjusts to under a pound of pull. The CZ is more versatile, as I bought it as an American model with all three barrels, then bought a used Varmint stock and a new factory bull barrel - so it's four guns in one.

    Side by side, the two guns both shoot very well. Squirrels hate them equally.

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  • Willy
    replied
    I've got a CZ455 American in 17 HMR and love it.
    The 455 isn't made anymore either but 22 LR and 22 WMR barrels are still available for it from CZ as well as a number of after market sources.The switch over only takes a few moments and offers an option other rifles don't have.

    As much as I love the looks and feel of quality from the CZ 455 my heavy barreled Savage B17 FV-SR is just as good of a shooter as the CZ.

    I'm also quite pleased with my Savage B-Mag in 17 WSM although I realize that may in many cases be a 50-50 proposition insofar as getting lucky with one. Color me lucky and happy though.

    If I had to loose two of the three, the CZ would still be there in the morning.

    As the others have mentioned, Rimfire Central is a gold mine of info regarding anything rimfire.

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  • dons
    replied
    CZ 452's are no longer in production, though they are excellent rifles an if you are really lucky you may find one in the chambering you want. I use CZ 455's and a 457 almost exclusively for tree squirrels. The nice thing about the 455 and 457 is barrels are easily installed. Accuracy wise, mine are right up there with my model 52B and several anschutz offerings I've shot.

    My latest is a 457 with a Lothar Walther barrel in 17 HM2. It is perfect for longer headshots on late season tree squirrels. Aftermarket barrels such as Walther or Lilja may need slight headspace adjustment. Liljas come with adjustment shims. I made my own for the Walther install.

    gzig5 is correct in rimfire central being a good information source.

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  • sarge41
    replied
    Thanks to everyone for their opinions and contributions.
    Sarge41

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  • gzig5
    replied
    I have a CZ 452 in .22lr and it is an excellent rifle. Trigger can be improved very cheaply and they are really accurate.
    On the budget side, the Savage rifles shoot good but don't look/handle near as nice.

    I'd snag another 452 without question as long as the budget allows. They aren't made anymore and prices have gone up. I think there were 455 and now 457? I haven't paid attention in a while. From what I've heard, they all shoot well. Probably a ton of info on Rimfire Central.

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  • macona
    replied
    HMR is about 2x the cost of HM2 but you can also get conversion kits to convert existing 22LR firearms to HM2. There are kits for the 10/22 and the Ruger Mark III pistol, though good luck finding the pistol kit.

    From what I read once they said that either round moved so fast they eventually disintegrated in flight, dont know if that's actually true though.

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  • sarge41
    replied
    Originally posted by macona View Post
    Ive kinda always wanted one of the .17 HM2 rifles.
    macona: I'm curious, why the 17HM2 instead of the HMR? Is the ammo cheaper?

    Sarge41

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