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Anyone used either of these aluminum brazing rods?

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  • Anyone used either of these aluminum brazing rods?

    I have these rods from tag sales, and have not yet used them. Wonder if anyone has, and might have any tips, since I will need to do some aluminum joining for a new project, and thought these might be useful.





    1601 2137 5683 1002 1437

    Keep eye on ball.
    Hashim Khan

    If you look closely at a digital signal, you find out it is really analog......

  • #2
    I finally threw mine away, I have always had tig, not sure why I bought them
    Ed
    Agua Dulce, So.California
    1950 F1 street rod
    1949 F1 stock V8 flathead
    1948 F6 350 chevy/rest stock, no dump bed
    1953 chevy 3100 AD for 85 S10 frame have a 4BT cummins motor, NV4500
    1968 Baha Bug with 2.2 ecotec motor, king coil-overs,P/S

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    • #3
      Aladdin is now Hobart department of Worldwidemegacorp, so you may be able to get information there. The 735 is now replaced by 2000 product.

      When engaging in this type of joining you'll be best served thinking of the filler as hot glue approaching the qualities of solder. Add to that that Aluminum AIN'T just Aluminum. The components of your assembly will be an alloy of Aluminum, Copper & Zink. None of those melt at 700°, so at best the filler is hotgluing the assembly.
      Now factor in that Aluminum alloys oxidize almost as fast as lead, and you got a job sticking the assembly together with any strength in the joint.

      But, since people who play with melting metals have a need to add frustration to their lives, go for it. When you get to the throwing point, pull out the JB Weld and make a strong connection.

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      • #4
        Clean, heat, apply some of the braze and brush the parts with stainless steel brush. Braze itself is stronger than ordinary aluminiums and machines nicely but getting a good joint is sometimes tricky.
        Location: Helsinki, Finland, Europe

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        • #5
          I suspect that that stuff is the basic zins rod. Use it like Matti said. I have made some very good repairs with simila=iar rod... but it's tricky … have to be CLEAN.

          Joe B

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Franz© View Post
            Aladdin is now Hobart department of Worldwidemegacorp, so you may be able to get information there. The 735 is now replaced by 2000 product.

            When engaging in this type of joining you'll be best served thinking of the filler as hot glue approaching the qualities of solder. Add to that that Aluminum AIN'T just Aluminum. The components of your assembly will be an alloy of Aluminum, Copper & Zink. None of those melt at 700°, so at best the filler is hotgluing the assembly.
            Now factor in that Aluminum alloys oxidize almost as fast as lead, and you got a job sticking the assembly together with any strength in the joint.

            But, since people who play with melting metals have a need to add frustration to their lives, go for it. When you get to the throwing point, pull out the JB Weld and make a strong connection.
            What do you REALLY think?

            You are likely wrong about part of it at least.

            I have some other wire that I HAVE used, torch "soldering" aluminum. When I used it, I used a propane torch and was working with 0.060" aluminum sheet. The aluminum, or the combo of the melted wire and the aluminum, actually DID melt, and I ended up basically torch welding with the propane torch. Yes, the aluminum melted, possibly. by alloying into the melted rod. I still have the thing I put together around somewhere, it was a bracket to put a meter on the dash of a car I have not owned in 35 years.... I tossed the bracket in the re-use-it bin.

            Anyhow, it actually did work OK. But I have zero idea how this and that compare. That looked much more like aluminum than these rods do. the idea that they are mostly zinc is perfectly possible.
            1601 2137 5683 1002 1437

            Keep eye on ball.
            Hashim Khan

            If you look closely at a digital signal, you find out it is really analog......

            Comment


            • #7
              While I have not used either of the brand names in your pics, I have used 4 different brands/types of the low temp brazing rods and had good success on both aluminum and pot metal. In my experience having a WOOD HANDLE STAINLESS WIRE BRUSH was the key. Constantly brushing through the melted puddle allowed good adhesion and then natural cooling. While I get lots of uses from plastic HF detail brushes, they do melt in this application.

              i used to go to a couple flea markets in NJ where I loitered around watching a guy performing miracles with the stuff. Enough of his technique soaked in so I was able to get good results on stuff when I had to.

              Illigitimi non Carborundum 😎
              9X49 Birmingham Mill, Reid Model 2C Grinder, 13x40 ENCO GH Lathe, 6X18 Craftsman lathe, Sherline CNC mill, Eastwood TIG200 AC/DC and lots of stuff from 30+ years in the trade and 15.5 in refinery unit operations. Now retired. El Paso, TX

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              • #8
                J I've spent considerable time over years staring into lists of ingredients in filler rods, some of it trying to figure out what is in the type rod you reference. Oddly I can go to filler sites and get solid information on most rods and even twist arms on manufacturers reps to get information on what went in the kettle to make any aluminum miracle rod.
                Yup, I've watched the demonstrators selling 4 rods in a plastic tube at shows, and I gotta admit the cooled joint looks like it might be stuck together. I've welded/brazed aluminum together since 1964 when old Bill Eckert showed me how to knock the coating off aluminum stick rods sit everything on fire bricks and send up a prayer or 2 to the welding gods just before lighting the O/A torch and tuning in a soft flame. I've also welded Aluminum with O/Hydrogen and green goggles. I've also welded up a few things, had coffee as they cooled, and had them fall apart when they were picked up.

                Aluminum is a funny animal and there are just too many alloys to make blanket statements..
                Looking at the packages in your picture first thing I noticed was one says Aluminum solder. In the era that rod was made, solder, braze & weld were all defined by the temperature the process was accomplished, as well as did the process just stick the components together or was a portion of the weldment melted into the pool. My thinking is go with the definition of the time of manufacture regardless how ESAB has redefined words since.

                That established, about the only way to know what is in them rods and in what percentage is to visit your local high end metal recycler and have him sample the rod with his laser gun.

                Then you sample the components of the weldment and determine f the alloys are compatible and will melt together to cool into an alloy called godknowswhaticum.

                Alternately, if you have some spare aluminum of the same alloy as you're trying to join try it and see what happens.

                My thinking on the melt & stir with a SS brush is it sure looks like it works, and sort of resembles skimming a lead pot.
                There is also the propane flame part of the job. Acetylene flames can and do kick off an occasional Carbon atom into the pool, and my understanding is adding that carbon to an aluminum melt can cause poor results. That makes sense since until 1970 Hydrogen was preferred for Aluminum work. Propane/air and even Propane/Oxy flames like Hydrogen don't throw carbon.

                Only absolute in this situation is you're going to know how it stuck and how the puddle flowed before I do. Sure hope you'll post how it went.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Franz I sold all my Oxy- Acetylene stuff and kind of regret doing so. I am seeing a couple of Presto Lite setups on the local CL complete with either a B or MC tank and thinking of buying one just for soft soldering stuff like this.
                  Retired - Journeyman Refrigeration Pipefitter - Master Electrician - Fine Line Automation CNC 4x4 Router

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wmgeorge View Post
                    Franz I sold all my Oxy- Acetylene stuff and kind of regret doing so. I am seeing a couple of Presto Lite setups on the local CL complete with either a B or MC tank and thinking of buying one just for soft soldering stuff like this.
                    To best of my knowledge Presto hasn't made a torch since the 70s, so be very wary if the torch itself is Presto. I have one in the drawer, and even though parts are again available I'm not putting it back into service. My preference runs to Smith torches made before Supergiantmegaworldwide bought Smith. I won't buy a new Smith for 10 bucks for the complete set.

                    Also be aware the 10cf MC can and the 40cf L tank don't work well with either 80 or 120cf Oxygen bottles. A MC can will work out about right with a pair of 20cf Oxygens.

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                    • #11
                      Franz... all I can tell you is that the OTHER rod I have, that looks a LOT more like aluminum than the slick shiny ones in the two bumdles I have, sure enough "welded" the aluminum, in the sense that the 0.05 sheet aluminum (a formed box) melted along with the filler wire. Surprised the heck out of me, given the propane torch, but it did connect the pieces, and they stayed connected despite a lot of vibration etc.

                      So it CAN happen that the results with "mystery aluminum solder", and "solder" is what it was called, are perfectly fine, even maybe very effective. That despite the fact that it ended up working more like welding rod.

                      Whether these will do that well, I do not know. On the project, I am hoping for a "solder" as opposed to "welding rod", meaning that I would like to connect the parts without melting them, as happened using the other wire/rod material.

                      Propane can easily exceed the 1220F melting point of aluminum, so that is not a question here. I have no intention of melting anything but the rod.
                      1601 2137 5683 1002 1437

                      Keep eye on ball.
                      Hashim Khan

                      If you look closely at a digital signal, you find out it is really analog......

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JoeCB View Post
                        I suspect that that stuff is the basic zins rod. Use it like Matti said. I have made some very good repairs with simila=iar rod... but it's tricky … have to be CLEAN.

                        Joe B
                        Of course, the deal with the wire brush is a good idea. I have decades of soldering experience, and silver brazing. With soft solder, many surfaces need that sort of scraping to get a bond.

                        Without "tinnng" the surfaces, it is not practical to do that with many joints, however. What I will be doing will be butt joints and lap joints, so if the brushing is needed, the parts will have to be "tinned" first.

                        I have no idea what sort of joint the zinc may make. It is present in many alloys, and if it alloys into aluminum, it will "solder", since soldering is simply creating a joint where the "solder" is alloyed into the base metal on each side of the joint.
                        1601 2137 5683 1002 1437

                        Keep eye on ball.
                        Hashim Khan

                        If you look closely at a digital signal, you find out it is really analog......

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Is this anything like the miracle AL rod the pretty girl at the trade shows uses to stick soda cans together? I've used that stuff repairing my friend's R/C aircraft engine muffler after a one-point landing . The pretty girl makes it look so easy, but it took me awhile to get the hang of it. I used a pinpoint torch and treated it like solder.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CarlByrns View Post
                            Is this anything like the miracle AL rod the pretty girl at the trade shows uses to stick soda cans together? I've used that stuff repairing my friend's R/C aircraft engine muffler after a one-point landing . The pretty girl makes it look so easy, but it took me awhile to get the hang of it. I used a pinpoint torch and treated it like solder.
                            No clue.

                            The loose rods and piece of paper version may be. I tend to think that of the ones with customer testimonials as to how it cured their headaches, constipation, and bunions overnight.... OOPS, I mean how it soldered their expensive one of a kind whatchamacallit back together for 25 cents and it worked perfectly for 15 years after that.

                            The Aladdin stuff is more legitimate, I think, they were in business a long time, and per a poster above, got bought by a conglomerate.

                            And, both of them may be the same darn thing. No clue, I will try both when it comes time to do that. Too cold out in the hot-work shop now, and we are due for an ice storm on top of a bunch of snow.
                            1601 2137 5683 1002 1437

                            Keep eye on ball.
                            Hashim Khan

                            If you look closely at a digital signal, you find out it is really analog......

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tim The Grim View Post
                              While I have not used either of the brand names in your pics, I have used 4 different brands/types of the low temp brazing rods and had good success on both aluminum and pot metal. In my experience having a WOOD HANDLE STAINLESS WIRE BRUSH was the key. Constantly brushing through the melted puddle allowed good adhesion and then natural cooling. While I get lots of uses from plastic HF detail brushes, they do melt in this application.

                              i used to go to a couple flea markets in NJ where I loitered around watching a guy performing miracles with the stuff. Enough of his technique soaked in so I was able to get good results on stuff when I had to.
                              This has been my experience as well, seems to cut through that layer of constantly forming of oxidation.
                              This seems to be the same technique that the cute girl at trade shows uses to achieve miraculous results.

                              The only thing I couldn't figure out was how she got into those incredibly tight jeans.
                              Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                              Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                              Location: British Columbia

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