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"Home Shop Welding 101"

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  • #31
    Ahhh, Russ, you just may have created a monster here!!

    But .... I'm sure gonna encourage you to keep on feedin it!!

    Great idea, especially from YOU, I always like the way you go at a problem--- with whatever you got at hand! which is the way prolly 90% of us have to do it ... we just cant justify going and spending those big bucks on some speciality "whatzit" for those probable one-off jobs. Good example is your using the "wrong" tip for the OA youre doing now, --- just what a lot of us would be doing, because we just dont have any other.

    Course the bestest thing to do would be to make up maybe 3 CD's on the topics and sell em -- you'd prolly get well just off this group! Hey, if Rudy and Jose, etc can do em, I know you could----

    Good luck on this venture!!!!
    If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something........

    Comment


    • #32
      I don't think I like this idea.

      What the hell can I use for an excuse for my news photographer type welds if I'm supposed to know how to do it?

      Torker I got oxy/acet, mig and AC/DC stick welder. Start with one of them as TIG ain't on my radar anytime soon !!
      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
      Thank you to our families of soldiers, many of whom have given so much more then the rest of us for the Freedom we enjoy.

      It is true, there is nothing free about freedom, don't be so quick to give it away.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by torker
        6013... this one.. it is a tricky rod. It is from the "Rutile" family(7014 is also). The weld deposit is usually FULL of tiny inclusions. Not getting into all of it but the weld bead ends up with a course, blocky ferrite microstructure that is very brittle... did you get that??? The weld is brittle! You actually should run a little bigger bead with this rod to compensate.

        Yep, I got it

        Lest anyone think that I was just making stuff up, I thought I would include some sources. I'm not disagreeing or arguing, just pointing out that I did have some reason to support E6013.

        Rutile electrodes just mean that they have titanium oxide in the flux. Common coatings include Rutile, Basic, Basic Rutile and Cellulosic according to a text from our local library. Basic, when compared to the others, have the highest resistance to cracking. Low hy rods are from the basic family.

        Rutile electrodes are known for their "operational characteristics" and are popular choices for many factories over seas. The cost and quick learning curve make them ideal for applications that do not require the strength of a low-hy rod. (Like Christmas tree stands or etc).

        According to "Metals and How to Weld Them", by TB Jefferson and Gorham Woods (a welding engineer and metallurgist, respectively), even with a rutile electrode, a weld bead produced by a competent SMAW welder will out-perform the same weld produced (at the same settings) by a MIG machine. Of course, this probably has alot to do with electrode size. By bumping up the heat on the MIG unit, it would probably out-perform the rutile electrode.

        Anyhow, I may have mis-interperted his statements but I wanted to make it clear I was not just blowing smoke out of my ... well you know.

        Anyway, everything that I could find online (including many scholarly articles available through JSTOR) all indicated the "exceptional operational characteristics" of rutile electrodes. For general purpose welds in low stressed areas, 6013 is pretty hard to screw up. From personal experiences and all of the references that I could find, they are known for their appearance, if not their mechanical strength. Hydrogen embrittlement is the issue with rutile electrodes and my choice, using 6013 for a structural joint, was not a good one. Luckily it hasn't failed... yet.

        I'm looking forward to seeing a website on welding by someone who knows what they're doing. There is alot of myths and rumors out on the web and I can't wait to learn something new! I already learned quite a bit. I'm excited to explore some of these different electrodes that I've never used before.

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        • #34
          Im looking forward to more info. I bought an OA set with a tax refund when I was a student (10 years ago). I figured OA was the most versatile, and being limited to one welder thats the road I chose (cutting as well as sticking together )
          As a self taught welder Im looking forward to learning the bits I do wrong.
          I have since taken a course at the local college, so can (IMO) reasonably weld with stick and MIG as well.

          Dave
          Just south of Sudspumpwater UK

          Comment


          • #35
            "For general purpose welds in LOW STRESS areas, 6013 is pretty hard to screw up."
            My point... noob welders welding things on the trailers, trucks, heavy shop racks etc.... not a good idea.
            That's why we only use it for chutes etc. in sawmills or pulpmills.
            I don't see the argument about it compared to mig tho..
            A 70S-6 wire has the same properties as any 70 series electrode.
            Of course if mig is done wrong... then I can see it.
            After it cools down in the shop.. I'll be doing some gas welding with a cutting torch...lol! Now that's "Homeshop"!
            Remembered why I don't like doing a whole lotta gas welding. Was doing an uphand T joint...burnt the crap out of my left hand cuz my coathanger was too short
            I have tools I don't even know I own...

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            • #36
              BTW.. I find I prefer coathangers to RG45 gas welding rod. I think they killed it better. Seems to handle like an RG60 but of course...we don't know the properties of a coathanger do we?
              (Well we do to a certain extent... steal enough coathangers outta the closet... pretty soon that will cause "property " issues with the missus)
              I have tools I don't even know I own...

              Comment


              • #37
                Coathangers, the time honored filler rod...

                Well, anytime I haven't had the filler from the welding store, I've used the hangers. Made some nice welds with them. But the point is, if you're welding mystery metal, why not use mystery filler rod???????????? Works great on non-critical welds, such as exhaust pipe.

                Regards to all
                TC
                I cut it off twice; it's still too short
                Oregon, USA

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Tim Clarke
                  Well, anytime I haven't had the filler from the welding store, I've used the hangers. Made some nice welds with them. But the point is, if you're welding mystery metal, why not use mystery filler rod???????????? Works great on non-critical welds, such as exhaust pipe.

                  Regards to all
                  TC
                  Yabut... we are going to see... I'm going to destructive test the coathanger/cutting torch welds.
                  I have tools I don't even know I own...

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    [QUOTE=torkerI'll be doing some gas welding with a cutting torch...lol! Now that's "Homeshop"!
                    Remembered why I don't like doing a whole lotta gas welding. Was doing an uphand T joint...burnt the crap out of my left hand cuz my coathanger was too short [/QUOTE]
                    Go down to the local hardware store and get some rolls of tie wire, that way You are still (sorta) mig welding with a torch. I don't care for clothse hanger welding the (flux) varnish coating gives me a head ache ,

                    Steve

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Steve..all i've seen here is galvanized or somesuch coated tiewire.
                      May as well post some welding stuff here. Was pretty interesting..
                      My "TOO" large welding tip... hard to handle but I'm getting the hang of it.
                      A few restarts that aren't great due to short pieces of coathanger..ouch!!!

                      I gotta take a new pic of this in the morning...it turned out as nice as wirefeed..

                      NOW.. welding with a cutting torch... This will be fun...

                      Hmmm ...doesn't look THAT bad... but "Houston...we have a problem"
                      I have tools I don't even know I own...

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Flip it over and back gouge it...

                        OMG.. this is hot! Only 1/4" material...very hard to weld fast enough with the torch..
                        The problem.. as I was welding it I could see that the high gas pressure from the torch was "sucking" dirty air into weld from under the flame. The weld wasn't pure...it was sorta frothy. All in all... it didn't look too bad considering..

                        Bend test... failed.. you can see the frosty weld broke..

                        However.. this wasn't a proper test. I never waited for the coupon to cool, the anvil on the press was very sharp and the female die was too short...compared to a proper tester..
                        So.. I'd like to try this again, with a smaller tip. I'm also going to do some more testing with the coathangers...maybe a problem but I don't think so..
                        Russ
                        Last edited by torker; 07-21-2008, 01:37 AM.
                        I have tools I don't even know I own...

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Is there a point demonstrationg how not to do things, given that there are a million & one ways to do a job wrong the thread could become a little long?

                          Can you get video rather than stills? Welding is a dynamic process where video with good instruction could be much more valuable than stills?

                          With OA how about starting with the basics - Oxidising Flame - Neutral Flame - Carburising Flame explaining the uses and effects and working from there?

                          Weld pool, whats a weld pool? You could also start out with a statement of assumed level of knowlege so newbies lacking some of this would not think they should be able to work it out,
                          Regards,
                          Nick
                          Last edited by NickH; 07-21-2008, 06:25 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Nick..where did I say "weld pool" anywhere on this thread??? I re-read all my posts and don't see it.(That one torch weld WAS a weld pool tho)
                            And I didn't realize you where from the UK(your spelling of oxidising and carburising) (My spelling would be oxidizing and carburizing)
                            I agree with the video...so you gonna lend me you equipment?
                            What's the "point"?
                            This is a "Homeshop" welding deal. Trying to think outside the box here... some of the things a homeshop guy would try.
                            How many times have you read about guys welding with a cutting torch? I have... in fact I've done it a few times in emergency situations. However.. I've never taken the time to test the results.
                            The "too large" of a tip... Why not? This is a very real homeshop or otherwise reality. Gotta weld on Sunday...no welding supply open...
                            And you should read the thread...right now I'm compiling any ideas and things I'm doing to get an idea where this will go.
                            I threw in the pics to break up the boredom...this is NOT how I would start out the real thread...if you read it you would see I've already said so.
                            Now please...where did I say "weld pool" in this thread...
                            Russ
                            I have tools I don't even know I own...

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              I'll be watching this one with interest, only ever did O/A as an apprentice.

                              I and others will have a coupla (dozen) questions, do you want to field them as you go, your all important time dependant or wait until the end each segment you intend doing.

                              Also would it be worth starting a new thread for each section, ie O/A TIG, MMA etc to make it easier for others to seach and ask questions specific to that technique.

                              Your thread, your rules, happy to watch anyway whatever.

                              Al

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Russ, may I suggest that the instruction part be a NO COMMENT thread. If you allow posts there will be much arguing about how and why your doing it. Have a seperate thread for comments. You know this is going to turn into a man eating Bear don't you.

                                Like you, I have used the cutting torch head to weld as well as the wrong size tip. When your in a hurry, your in a hurry and it works.

                                I use 6013 'cause I like the way it flows and was not aware of the brittle aspect. I also like 7018 rods and use them for strength welds.

                                When I was a teenager in the late '50's my uncle set me to cutting old engines to scrap out. I had to learn how to cut cast iron with a O/A torch and it's not easy and I probably can't do it now as it takes a lot of practice.

                                I hope you can turn this into a good instruction thread without comments.
                                It's only ink and paper

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