Piecemaker 25A Parts

[garagemark]

Well, I have yet another dilemma in the welding world. All coming to light now because I just came out of hibernation to start a new fabrication project, and my equipment is getting old- like me. It seems I’m leaning on you guys a lot lately, but you all usually have the answers! So, for my next issue:

I have an older Hobart Beta MIG 250 wire welder. I bought it used years ago off an old guy who didn’t use it more than a couple of times, and I take care of my stuff, so it’s like brand new. It is fitted with a Piecemaker 25A gun that too is in good shape. It needs refreshed with a new nozzle and a contact tip, but that’s all. Except…

Consumables are no longer made for this gun. No welding house anywhere has exact replacement contact tips that I can find. They all want to sell me a new gun. Well, I don’t want or need a new gun. So, I’m in search of any contact tip that has a thread pitch of 1/4”-20. If I can get that thread, I can shape the rest of the tip to fit. All I can seem to locate are M6 or 1/4”-28 pitch. I’ve even thought of forcing a 1/4”-20 die over the M6 fine threads. The rest of the dimensions of the real thing are .25 DIA x 1” L (6.33mm x 25.36mm).

The nozzle and diffuser will be another story, but I’m not there yet. I need tips! And suggestions! Anyone know of an American 1/4”-20 thread contact tip? Can/ should I booger up something else to fit?

Appreciate the help,
Mark

[BigMike782]

Mark,

One possibility is to change all of the front end consumables. Does the diffuser thread into or onto the goose neck?
What thread is it?

What is the serial number of the machine?

[garagemark]

Mike- at work, don't have access to machine right now, will work on it tonight.

Heck, I had no idea that I was going have so much grief just getting contact tips. I guess just because my machine has been taken care doesn't mean they all have.

I think one of the problems is going to be that the gun was built in the USA with Imperial measurements and threads, and most machines and guns are now made across the left pond to metric dimensions.

It's a hellufagood welder. I'll fight and kick and scream before I'll replace this gun.

[BigMike782]

Don't throw the towel in

[Willy]

Could you possibly modify the very popular Tweco 14 series tip to fit your gun? My Lincoln uses this size and I would think due to the length of these tips it would be possible to adapt it to yours.
They are of course 1/4"x28 tpi like everything else and are .25" dia. but it looks like it may be an option. Threads and a countersunk bevel where the wire feeds into it and you're done.

Tweco style 14 Series Standard Duty Contact Tip accommodates 0.03" wire and is compatible with 200 - 400 A Radnor Radnor Pro, Tweco Tweco No. 2, Tweco No. 3 as well as Tweco No. 4 MIG guns. Also, fits Most Prostar and Lincoln style mig guns using Tweco style contact tips

[66vette]

Ask your question on the Hobart Forum, they may have a resolution for you.


https://weldtalk.hobartwelders.com/

[Willy]

Having a quick look around this AM and found these:



They appear to be 1/4" x 20 tpi, any reason they would not fit your gun?

HOBART PIECEMAKER 14-A & 20-A TIP & NOZZLE KIT

[garagemark]

Willy, after some more inquiries last night I received a reply this morning from a welding shop I wrote to:

Hi,
We are not able to support this gun for consumables. Below is a link to a a company that has a conversion kit for the end of the gun -that allows for new consumables.

https://www.usaweld.com/Hobart-Piece...aker-parts.htm

Hope this helped,
Bob

If the 14A and 20A have (had) the same neck style, I could possibly do a retrofit for about 25 bucks. But I also might find tips and such like you did for the 14A. I'll check your source out.
I also put this out on the Hobart forum. We'll see what they say.

And thank you all for helping.

[BigMike782]

If the gun has a Tweco power pin I can probably set you up with a nice gun cheap.

[garagemark]

If the gun has a Tweco power pin I can probably set you up with a nice gun cheap.

Thank you very kindly for your offer. If worse comes to worst, I may not have a choice. But my gun is in like new condition; I'd hate to have to toss it in the junk pile simply for a one dollar contact tip or a five dollar nozzle.

I'm going to soldier on for a bit until my frustration starts to affect my marriage. Then I MIGHT break down and call it quits.

Thanks again.

[BigMike782]

Does the diffuser thread into the goose neck? If it does what thread is it?
If it does and it 3/8 fine you could thread a 52FN diffuser in then use Tweco 14 series contact tips and 23 series nozzles.
If it doesn't you might be able to make a threaded adapter to adapt a Tweco style diffuser and follow the path above.
I could not find any books old enough to show the break down of that gun.

[Willy]

Mark,

One possibility is to change all of the front end consumables. Does the diffuser thread into or onto the goose neck?
What thread is it?

What is the serial number of the machine?

Does the diffuser thread into the goose neck? If it does what thread is it?
If it does and it 3/8 fine you could thread a 52FN diffuser in then use Tweco 14 series contact tips and 23 series nozzles.
If it doesn't you might be able to make a threaded adapter to adapt a Tweco style diffuser and follow the path above.
I could not find any books old enough to show the break down of that gun.

I think Mike has the best overall answer for a long term solution. I know that the Piecemaker 14A uses the 3/8x24 diffuser thread so hopefully the 25A gun is the same.
52FN diffusers,insulators,nozzles and matching tips are readily available and would make consumables replacement so much more simple, never mind cheaper.

[garagemark]

Sorry folks, worked late last night. Should have some time this evening to pull it apart and take some measurements.

Please stand by.

[garagemark]

Thanks to your suggestions, poking and prodding, I think we're just about home. I took the gun apart last night and found that, indeed the diffuser is threaded into the gooseneck, and is a 3/8"-24 thread, 1-1/8" long.

So, just for giggles this morning, I searched for general Miller diffusers (since Miller owns Hobart). In the images I found what looked to be the same shaped piece of brass. A quick click or two verified dimensions- #169728 is a perfect 3/8"-24 match for my old gun, is the correct length, and the thread pitch for the contact tip is 1/4"-28 thread, a very common size. The correct .035 tip for this diffuser is Miller #000068.

I still haven't figured out the nozzle adapter that screws onto the outside of the gooseneck, nor the slip fit nozzle that goes over it, but I haven't the need for those pieces. How often do you ruin a nozzle? I never have. But I'll bet there is a workaround out there for this issue as well. When/ if I need it I'll dive in again.

So tell me, why won't the Miller people or welding supply houses come up with and publish the same retrofit option? So they can sell me a new gun? Oh well...

I'm going to order these parts and physically verify compatibility, then stock up on them! I don't treat my equipment badly, so I expect this gun to last until I can't see to weld anymore.

Thanks to you guys again for direction, suggestion, offer and opinion. I learned a lot from this exercise. Nice to have good teachers!

Cheers,
Mark

[BigMike782]

Mark, unless your goose neck has the correct thread for a Miller 169729 you won't have anything to slide the nozzle onto.
If you use Tweco parts the nozzle or insulator will thread onto the diffuser.

The reason Miller and the welding suppliers don't offer this option?
Miller is in the business to new equipment and support parts for recent machines.
Most welding supply counter people are not welders......some are. Because they don't weld most don't fix stuff. Because they don't fix stuff they are accustomed to "just get me a new ?"

I hope you can fix it.